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med school prestige for residency
#11
(10-12-2018, 12:49 PM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 08:49 AM)Guest Wrote: absolutely. just coz you goto a better school doesnt make you better than someone at state school. get over your god complex

Keep thinking that if it makes you feel better inside. If you think that the quality of students at low tier state schools is the same as Harvard then you're simply delusional. Guess what? If you go to Harvard college you have a much better chance of landing coveted jobs in finance/consulting than if you go to South Dakota State. If you go to Harvard/Yale law you have a way better shot of getting a top big law gig or supreme court clerkship than you if you go to a low tier state school. If you go to med school at HMS/Penn/Hopkins or similar, you have a better chance of getting top tier academic residencies in competitive specialties. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to do so from state schools but the students at the top places have generally been top performers their whole life and get more benefit of the doubt.

This is either purposefully chauvinistic or incredibly naive. The sheer amount of variables that accompany the decision about where someone attends undergrad, grad school, med school, etc. makes your statement inane. Maybe the "top performers" argument would work at the undergrad level (setting aside the nepotism rampant at ivy league institutions), but it holds no water at all beyond that. The USMLE is a standardized test, right? The top performers at low-tier schools would likely be top performers at any institution; it's the lower quartile of the class that differs. 

If anything, those that achieve neurosurgery residency without the backing of a top 40 NIH-funded program have demonstrated a hunger for success that doesn't need a silver spoon for feedings. I can forgive uneducated or snotty patients who weigh heavily the school someone went to, but if you're an applicant or resident with these same misgivings, maybe it's you suffering under an unadulterated delusion.
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#12
at our program, the best residents are consistently from schools you have never heard of. the ones from Harvard Yale etc are consistently the weakest surgeons, lazy, and complain the most. and everyone knows that these "elite" medical schools have the most mediocre neurosurgery programs.
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#13
It can definitely help but it's not an advantage if you're a below average applicant. If you're a middle of the road applicant with a 240, 1 paper and not much else going for you then coming from a prominent academic institution can help you.

At the same time, if you're a weak applicant from a neurosurgery breeding ground like Stanford/Columbia/Penn/Pitt/JHU then it sometimes raises some eyebrows because you had all the resources to be great but you're not.
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#14
(10-12-2018, 04:35 PM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 12:49 PM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 08:49 AM)Guest Wrote: absolutely. just coz you goto a better school doesnt make you better than someone at state school. get over your god complex

Keep thinking that if it makes you feel better inside. If you think that the quality of students at low tier state schools is the same as Harvard then you're simply delusional. Guess what? If you go to Harvard college you have a much better chance of landing coveted jobs in finance/consulting than if you go to South Dakota State. If you go to Harvard/Yale law you have a way better shot of getting a top big law gig or supreme court clerkship than you if you go to a low tier state school. If you go to med school at HMS/Penn/Hopkins or similar, you have a better chance of getting top tier academic residencies in competitive specialties. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to do so from state schools but the students at the top places have generally been top performers their whole life and get more benefit of the doubt.

This is either purposefully chauvinistic or incredibly naive. The sheer amount of variables that accompany the decision about where someone attends undergrad, grad school, med school, etc. makes your statement inane. Maybe the "top performers" argument would work at the undergrad level (setting aside the nepotism rampant at ivy league institutions), but it holds no water at all beyond that. The USMLE is a standardized test, right? The top performers at low-tier schools would likely be top performers at any institution; it's the lower quartile of the class that differs. 

If anything, those that achieve neurosurgery residency without the backing of a top 40 NIH-funded program have demonstrated a hunger for success that doesn't need a silver spoon for feedings. I can forgive uneducated or snotty patients who weigh heavily the school someone went to, but if you're an applicant or resident with these same misgivings, maybe it's you suffering under an unadulterated delusion.

Silver spoon my ass. I went to a top 5 school and my parents made 40K/year my entire life for a family of 5. My classmates were invariably brilliant and were some of the best students at the top colleges. Yeah of course we had kids who were well off and had doctor parents, but your mommy and daddy can't get you a 4.0 in BME at Hopkins or a 40 MCAT. The idea that because you go to Harvard that you're inherently privileged is absurd - you get into Harvard because you've made yourself into one of the best applicants in the country in terms of grades, scores, research, and achievement. The hunger has clearly been there your entire academic career.
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#15
Silver spoon = best spoon. My parents were smart, got rich. It’s genetics. I’m smart, went to top 5 school.
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#16
(10-12-2018, 04:35 PM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 12:49 PM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 08:49 AM)Guest Wrote: absolutely. just coz you goto a better school doesnt make you better than someone at state school. get over your god complex

Keep thinking that if it makes you feel better inside. If you think that the quality of students at low tier state schools is the same as Harvard then you're simply delusional. Guess what? If you go to Harvard college you have a much better chance of landing coveted jobs in finance/consulting than if you go to South Dakota State. If you go to Harvard/Yale law you have a way better shot of getting a top big law gig or supreme court clerkship than you if you go to a low tier state school. If you go to med school at HMS/Penn/Hopkins or similar, you have a better chance of getting top tier academic residencies in competitive specialties. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to do so from state schools but the students at the top places have generally been top performers their whole life and get more benefit of the doubt.

This is either purposefully chauvinistic or incredibly naive. The sheer amount of variables that accompany the decision about where someone attends undergrad, grad school, med school, etc. makes your statement inane. Maybe the "top performers" argument would work at the undergrad level (setting aside the nepotism rampant at ivy league institutions), but it holds no water at all beyond that. The USMLE is a standardized test, right? The top performers at low-tier schools would likely be top performers at any institution; it's the lower quartile of the class that differs. 

If anything, those that achieve neurosurgery residency without the backing of a top 40 NIH-funded program have demonstrated a hunger for success that doesn't need a silver spoon for feedings. I can forgive uneducated or snotty patients who weigh heavily the school someone went to, but if you're an applicant or resident with these same misgivings, maybe it's you suffering under an unadulterated delusion.

Top schools generally do not emphasize the Step exams in the curriculum. There is a lot of scientific and touchy feely curriculum. State schools generally have memorization and exam focused curriculum with preclinical shelfs etc. The majority of the content on free response preclinical tests have no relevance to USMLEs. These students still end up with top scores with minimal time to prepare.
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#17
(10-13-2018, 02:49 AM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 04:35 PM)Guest Wrote: This is either purposefully chauvinistic or incredibly naive. The sheer amount of variables that accompany the decision about where someone attends undergrad, grad school, med school, etc. makes your statement inane. Maybe the "top performers" argument would work at the undergrad level (setting aside the nepotism rampant at ivy league institutions), but it holds no water at all beyond that. The USMLE is a standardized test, right? The top performers at low-tier schools would likely be top performers at any institution; it's the lower quartile of the class that differs.

If anything, those that achieve neurosurgery residency without the backing of a top 40 NIH-funded program have demonstrated a hunger for success that doesn't need a silver spoon for feedings. I can forgive uneducated or snotty patients who weigh heavily the school someone went to, but if you're an applicant or resident with these same misgivings, maybe it's you suffering under an unadulterated delusion.

No one is saying that low tier schools can not have "Top Performers". Rather, norm students at top schools are nationally top students and nationally top students are the exceptions in lower tier schools. The norm vs exception holds true for med school as well. So, more of the national top students end up in top med schools than lower tier schools. There is one factor that benefits students at top a university/MS and that is exposure to top professors and academics. 

Same holds holds true for patient decisions. That is not to say that a surgeon educated at a lower tier program is not as good, or even better; rather, if a patient/family is faced with a life and death decision, and they don't have, or can not analyse, all of the facts and backgrounds of each surgeon, they will tend to grasp at scales that society accepts as the norm and "normally" that is the right decision. God help the "uneducated or snotty patients" who might get someone like you as their provider. Hunger for success is a materialistic quality. It is the passion for what you do that matters; especially in NS field.
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#18
(10-13-2018, 09:35 AM)Guest Wrote:
(10-13-2018, 02:49 AM)Guest Wrote:
(10-12-2018, 04:35 PM)Guest Wrote: This is either purposefully chauvinistic or incredibly naive. The sheer amount of variables that accompany the decision about where someone attends undergrad, grad school, med school, etc. makes your statement inane. Maybe the "top performers" argument would work at the undergrad level (setting aside the nepotism rampant at ivy league institutions), but it holds no water at all beyond that. The USMLE is a standardized test, right? The top performers at low-tier schools would likely be top performers at any institution; it's the lower quartile of the class that differs.

If anything, those that achieve neurosurgery residency without the backing of a top 40 NIH-funded program have demonstrated a hunger for success that doesn't need a silver spoon for feedings. I can forgive uneducated or snotty patients who weigh heavily the school someone went to, but if you're an applicant or resident with these same misgivings, maybe it's you suffering under an unadulterated delusion.

No one is saying that low tier schools can not have "Top Performers". Rather, norm students at top schools are nationally top students and nationally top students are the exceptions in lower tier schools. The norm vs exception holds true for med school as well. So, more of the national top students end up in top med schools than lower tier schools. There is one factor that benefits students at top a university/MS and that is exposure to top professors and academics. 

Same holds holds true for patient decisions. That is not to say that a surgeon educated at a lower tier program is not as good, or even better; rather, if a patient/family is faced with a life and death decision, and they don't have, or can not analyse, all of the facts and backgrounds of each surgeon, they will tend to grasp at scales that society accepts as the norm and "normally" that is the right decision. God help the "uneducated or snotty patients" who might get someone like you as their provider. Hunger for success is a materialistic quality. It is the passion for what you do that matters; especially in NS field.

and here's another one with a god complex
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#19
The medical school prestige as a whole has nothing to do with it. It is more about your school's neurosurgery program's prestige. It just so happens medical school and program prestige tends to align, but not in every case. The more well-respected your home program is the more likely it is that you have well-respected faculty to vouch for you, and the more likely you are to have quality neurosurgery publications just from being around these programs. On top of that, people that were able to get into top medical schools are more likely to perform better on exams.

No one gives the applicant from an ivy league medical school any more respect than the state school applicant solely because he was able to get into an ivy league school. That's ridiculous.
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#20
(10-13-2018, 11:02 AM)Guest Wrote: The medical school prestige as a whole has nothing to do with it. It is more about your school's neurosurgery program's prestige. It just so happens medical school and program prestige tends to align, but not in every case. The more well-respected your home program is the more likely it is that you have well-respected faculty to vouch for you, and the more likely you are to have quality neurosurgery publications just from being around these programs. On top of that, people that were able to get into top medical schools are more likely to perform better on exams.

No one gives the applicant from an ivy league medical school any more respect than the state school applicant solely because he was able to get into an ivy league school. That's ridiculous.
thank you for the insight. this makes a lot of sense and i agree with you on it
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