(05-20-2020, 02:53 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s been a lot of talk about autonomy vs. research exposure vs. volume, but what about mentorship/teaching? What good is a program with insane volume, when as a junior resident the attending doesn’t teach/pimp you in the OR or lectures/conferences are nonexistent/noninformative? I’m most curious to know which programs have outstanding attendings that have resident education as their #1 priority. It has always bugged me that one of the pinnacles of prestige in the field is to become a “Professor of Neurosurgery,” but so many that obtain this title could give 2 sh*ts about the essence of professorship: teaching. USC might have tremendous volume and autonomy, but do Zada and Mack and Giannotta constantly strive to teach residents? Conversely, BWH may have less volume, but are the cases that residents do scrub filled with teaching by Bi, Cosgrove, and Almefty?
I thought the Florida programs: UF, Miami, USF all had strong volume, operative experience and attendings that truly cared about teaching. You will probably find mentorship at an individual level with 1-2 attendings rather than the entire department.
There’s a lot of useful talk here about academic programs, but what about programs that are good fits for applicants with zero interest in research? What are the best clinical programs that train their residents really well and set them up for private practice with fairly minimal academic expectations?
Sounds like BNI is versatile enough that it also falls into this category, but where else?
(05-20-2020, 11:22 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s a lot of useful talk here about academic programs, but what about programs that are good fits for applicants with zero interest in research? What are the best clinical programs that train their residents really well and set them up for private practice with fairly minimal academic expectations?
Sounds like BNI is versatile enough that it also falls into this category, but where else?
Carolinas, MUSC, OHSU, Colorado, Utah, Memphis, Northwell, VCU, SLU, Rochester, Houston
(05-20-2020, 02:53 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s been a lot of talk about autonomy vs. research exposure vs. volume, but what about mentorship/teaching? What good is a program with insane volume, when as a junior resident the attending doesn’t teach/pimp you in the OR or lectures/conferences are nonexistent/noninformative? I’m most curious to know which programs have outstanding attendings that have resident education as their #1 priority. It has always bugged me that one of the pinnacles of prestige in the field is to become a “Professor of Neurosurgery,” but so many that obtain this title could give 2 sh*ts about the essence of professorship: teaching. USC might have tremendous volume and autonomy, but do Zada and Mack and Giannotta constantly strive to teach residents? Conversely, BWH may have less volume, but are the cases that residents do scrub filled with teaching by Bi, Cosgrove, and Almefty?
This is actually a good point that's never really mentioned by applicants. I rotated at Mayo and a west coast program. I thought Mayo Rochester had amazing teaching. Junior residents got the best kind of autonomy - the attendings would not scrub in but stand next to them and talk the residents through the critical parts ("What are you worried about here?" "Go more laterally, keep going", etc.) and they let them operate without taking back the controls while still being present and teaching. Senior level residents were comfortable enough in that they ran solo. The formal didactics and teaching were also amazing and led by the chair/major faculty every week. These are just the places I've seen first hand. I know others, like Michigan, also have great teaching. You're right in that autonomy and teaching are not related. You can have programs with great autonomy where you'll never see an attending, and others with great teaching but where you won't be doing the cases and watching the attending.
(05-20-2020, 12:11 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-20-2020, 02:53 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s been a lot of talk about autonomy vs. research exposure vs. volume, but what about mentorship/teaching? What good is a program with insane volume, when as a junior resident the attending doesn’t teach/pimp you in the OR or lectures/conferences are nonexistent/noninformative? I’m most curious to know which programs have outstanding attendings that have resident education as their #1 priority. It has always bugged me that one of the pinnacles of prestige in the field is to become a “Professor of Neurosurgery,” but so many that obtain this title could give 2 sh*ts about the essence of professorship: teaching. USC might have tremendous volume and autonomy, but do Zada and Mack and Giannotta constantly strive to teach residents? Conversely, BWH may have less volume, but are the cases that residents do scrub filled with teaching by Bi, Cosgrove, and Almefty?
This is actually a good point that's never really mentioned by applicants. I rotated at Mayo and a west coast program. I thought Mayo Rochester had amazing teaching. Junior residents got the best kind of autonomy - the attendings would not scrub in but stand next to them and talk the residents through the critical parts ("What are you worried about here?" "Go more laterally, keep going", etc.) and they let them operate without taking back the controls while still being present and teaching. Senior level residents were comfortable enough in that they ran solo. The formal didactics and teaching were also amazing and led by the chair/major faculty every week. These are just the places I've seen first hand. I know others, like Michigan, also have great teaching. You're right in that autonomy and teaching are not related. You can have programs with great autonomy where you'll never see an attending, and others with great teaching but where you won't be doing the cases and watching the attending.
Thanks, I think this is a really important distinction to make.
So Mayo, Michigan, BNI all seem like places where teaching is prevalent. Can anyone mention any other places like these?
(05-20-2020, 12:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-20-2020, 12:11 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-20-2020, 02:53 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s been a lot of talk about autonomy vs. research exposure vs. volume, but what about mentorship/teaching? What good is a program with insane volume, when as a junior resident the attending doesn’t teach/pimp you in the OR or lectures/conferences are nonexistent/noninformative? I’m most curious to know which programs have outstanding attendings that have resident education as their #1 priority. It has always bugged me that one of the pinnacles of prestige in the field is to become a “Professor of Neurosurgery,” but so many that obtain this title could give 2 sh*ts about the essence of professorship: teaching. USC might have tremendous volume and autonomy, but do Zada and Mack and Giannotta constantly strive to teach residents? Conversely, BWH may have less volume, but are the cases that residents do scrub filled with teaching by Bi, Cosgrove, and Almefty?
This is actually a good point that's never really mentioned by applicants. I rotated at Mayo and a west coast program. I thought Mayo Rochester had amazing teaching. Junior residents got the best kind of autonomy - the attendings would not scrub in but stand next to them and talk the residents through the critical parts ("What are you worried about here?" "Go more laterally, keep going", etc.) and they let them operate without taking back the controls while still being present and teaching. Senior level residents were comfortable enough in that they ran solo. The formal didactics and teaching were also amazing and led by the chair/major faculty every week. These are just the places I've seen first hand. I know others, like Michigan, also have great teaching. You're right in that autonomy and teaching are not related. You can have programs with great autonomy where you'll never see an attending, and others with great teaching but where you won't be doing the cases and watching the attending.
Thanks, I think this is a really important distinction to make.
So Mayo, Michigan, BNI all seem like places where teaching is prevalent. Can anyone mention any other places like these?
MGH, Stanford, UCLA, BWH
Lot of interesting opinions getting thrown around. I especially appreciate the person who reference Iowa when talking about lesser known, non-academic programs. Really? Have you not heard of Matt Howard? Five minutes into talking with him and you'll know that place is legit. Almost couldn't pick a worse example for your argument.
For some reason, "the list" always seem to be the same 5-10 places. Funny that even after some of them undergo attending exodus/reshuffling no one updates their assessment. Still can't understand how places where residents never publish and rarely get academic jobs get discussed as "research powerhouses". It's hilarious that places with R25s and several MD/PhDs get mentioned as "good for people without research interests". OHSU? Huh? Did you even take 2 minutes to look at their resident roster?
At least this thread serves as entertainment during room turnover.
(05-20-2020, 02:53 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s been a lot of talk about autonomy vs. research exposure vs. volume, but what about mentorship/teaching? What good is a program with insane volume, when as a junior resident the attending doesn’t teach/pimp you in the OR or lectures/conferences are nonexistent/noninformative? I’m most curious to know which programs have outstanding attendings that have resident education as their #1 priority. It has always bugged me that one of the pinnacles of prestige in the field is to become a “Professor of Neurosurgery,” but so many that obtain this title could give 2 sh*ts about the essence of professorship: teaching. USC might have tremendous volume and autonomy, but do Zada and Mack and Giannotta constantly strive to teach residents? Conversely, BWH may have less volume, but are the cases that residents do scrub filled with teaching by Bi, Cosgrove, and Almefty?
USC strives to provide alot of teaching in and out of the OR. Giannotta, Mack and Zada are all great teachers. Drs, Giannotta and Mack have also placed a large emphasis on research with the R25 grant and NIH funded faculty members
Lot of teaching at BWH/BCH from junior attendings up to AlMefty/Laws/Cosgrove/Michael Scott. Morning conferences daily as well. Usually there is some text or phone discussion with attendings about the next days case as well so resident can prepare.
(05-20-2020, 02:07 PM)Guest Wrote: Lot of interesting opinions getting thrown around. I especially appreciate the person who reference Iowa when talking about lesser known, non-academic programs. Really? Have you not heard of Matt Howard? Five minutes into talking with him and you'll know that place is legit. Almost couldn't pick a worse example for your argument.
For some reason, "the list" always seem to be the same 5-10 places. Funny that even after some of them undergo attending exodus/reshuffling no one updates their assessment. Still can't understand how places where residents never publish and rarely get academic jobs get discussed as "research powerhouses". It's hilarious that places with R25s and several MD/PhDs get mentioned as "good for people without research interests". OHSU? Huh? Did you even take 2 minutes to look at their resident roster?
At least this thread serves as entertainment during room turnover.
Both can be true. The top 5-10 places that people list can be great and Iowa can be a great program. Just like at every level of education, people are going to gravitate and talk about the biggest name places. When it came to colleges, everyone talked about the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, MIT but that doesn't mean that Wash U or Emory or Northwestern or Vanderbilt aren't great places to go to college too.
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