covid 19- business as usual?

[Guest]

Aren't there still non-covid patients that need taken care of too? At this point the only thing preventing me from functioning as an intern are arbitrary graduation and july 1 start dates. Many medical students have effectively completed all of their graduation requirements by this time of the year.

[Guest]

But the same med students should take care of these patients July 1, when they do nothing between now and then to make them better suited? The only reason med students don’t contribute more, is they aren’t allowed to. Make them interns with more permission and those same med students will contribute.

[Guest]

I'm at an academic center in the NE (admittedly not NYC). As of today, our hospital is emptier than ever. All elective surgeries and appointments have been cancelled. Residents are being given days off because the services are slow and we want to decrease risk of exposure. There is not *presently* a man-power shortage. That day may very well be coming, but only then is it worth putting MS4s at risk to themselves and others.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:06 PM)Guest Wrote: I'm at an academic center in the NE (admittedly not NYC). As of today, our hospital is emptier than ever. All elective surgeries and appointments have been cancelled. Residents are being given days off because the services are slow and we want to decrease risk of exposure. There is not *presently* a man-power shortage. That day may very well be coming, but only then is it worth putting MS4s at risk to themselves and others.

Maybe, but you must let these MS4s go through orientation with computer access, etc first. Why not get ahead of it? The MS4s are doing nothing else.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 01:37 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Guest Wrote: By that argument, we shouldn't have any doctors or nurses in the hospital.

Look at what Italy did, they graduated the entire senior class early.  The only reason medical students are limited is a) they don't want to do anything b) the school administration is afraid of liability.  This scenario is clearly different, they should be there the same as residents.

Sure it's great learning, but a global crisis is not the time for learning. You wouldn't learn how to work a gun from the front lines of a war, and you shouldn't be learning how to treat ARDS for the first time during a pandemic.

Tell that to the soviet's from WWII.

I don't think you guys have any comprehension on the scope and severity of the lack of, literally warm bodies who are able to provide care for patients, that this pandemic will create.  Hiding at home for fear of "not wasting" PPE, or not catching it, is weak at best, and desertion of duty when it comes down to it.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 01:46 PM)Guest Wrote: Aren't there still non-covid patients that need taken care of too? At this point the only thing preventing me from functioning as an intern are arbitrary graduation and july 1 start dates. Many medical students have effectively completed all of their graduation requirements by this time of the year.

A fresh intern is just as useful as a medical student, you're pretty much unable to function on your own for at least the first 3-4 months. The main difference is interns are able to put in their own orders, which makes them useful for scut work. You don't even have the clearance right now to perform scut work.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:32 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:46 PM)Guest Wrote: Aren't there still non-covid patients that need taken care of too? At this point the only thing preventing me from functioning as an intern are arbitrary graduation and july 1 start dates. Many medical students have effectively completed all of their graduation requirements by this time of the year.

A fresh intern is just as useful as a medical student, you're pretty much unable to function on your own for at least the first 3-4 months. The main difference is interns are able to put in their own orders, which makes them useful for scut work. You don't even have the clearance right now to perform scut work.

That’s why I recommended letting them go through orientation early, as in now, so that they will be prepared to do “scut work” or actually help when it’s needed.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:24 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 02:06 PM)Guest Wrote: I'm at an academic center in the NE (admittedly not NYC). As of today, our hospital is emptier than ever. All elective surgeries and appointments have been cancelled. Residents are being given days off because the services are slow and we want to decrease risk of exposure. There is not *presently* a man-power shortage. That day may very well be coming, but only then is it worth putting MS4s at risk to themselves and others.

Maybe, but you must let these MS4s go through orientation with computer access, etc first. Why not get ahead of it? The MS4s are doing nothing else.

This is the answer. Prepare for the worst by having MS4s complete any required online BS and e-modules. But don’t jump the gun sending them in before it’s necessary

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:32 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:46 PM)Guest Wrote: Aren't there still non-covid patients that need taken care of too? At this point the only thing preventing me from functioning as an intern are arbitrary graduation and july 1 start dates. Many medical students have effectively completed all of their graduation requirements by this time of the year.

A fresh intern is just as useful as a medical student, you're pretty much unable to function on your own for at least the first 3-4 months. The main difference is interns are able to put in their own orders, which makes them useful for scut work. You don't even have the clearance right now to perform scut work.

I think that is what some people are proposing. Accelerate the M4 to intern process so that they can aid with scut. I agree that keeping med students in hospitals without somehow increasing their ability to contribute is pointless. 

But you can also argue that it isn't necessary to remove students from our hospital yet. We only have 1 confirmed case in a 100 mile radius and that person is on home quarantine. We don't have an influx of covid inpatients, yet.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 02:32 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:46 PM)Guest Wrote: Aren't there still non-covid patients that need taken care of too? At this point the only thing preventing me from functioning as an intern are arbitrary graduation and july 1 start dates. Many medical students have effectively completed all of their graduation requirements by this time of the year.

A fresh intern is just as useful as a medical student, you're pretty much unable to function on your own for at least the first 3-4 months. The main difference is interns are able to put in their own orders, which makes them useful for scut work. You don't even have the clearance right now to perform scut work.

I think that is what some people are proposing. Accelerate the M4 to intern process so that they can aid with scut. I agree that keeping med students in hospitals without somehow increasing their ability to contribute is pointless. 

But you can also argue that it isn't necessary to remove students from our hospital yet. We only have 1 confirmed case in a 100 mile radius and that person is on home quarantine. We don't have an influx of covid inpatients, yet.

In order to accelerate their progression to intern year, schools need to give them the MD degree (which would be easy) and then they need to apply for a state license. The question becomes, should it be in the state of their medical school, or the state where they match for residency in 2 days and would actually be credentialed to practice? Probably the latter.

I agree that's it's not that bad, *yet*. I'm at a NYC hospital and we have a decent amount of space. Cleared out the SICU and other areas to hold patients but we're not even close to being overrun yet.