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Best Programs for Academic Career
#11
I agree with drstrange's post but here are my thoughts since I can easily tell that most of the posts in this topic are coming from med students, residents and probably junior faculty whose knowledge is limited and mostly based on 5 years experience or so. When you want to talk about academic powerhouse it's not based on a batch of graduates but it's a work for decades...here I am talking about at least 20-30 years of actively producing academic neurosurgeons who are heavily involved in the leadership positions.

1) UVA: Although the great John Jane has died and the program lost a lot of its prestige, there is still a large portion of its graduates in leadership positions across the country. Not mentioning this program in any of the posts above just tells me how much inexperienced posters above are

2) USC: Almost same as above. Many faculty retired or left but still has a solid name and connections.

3) Columbia: Regardless you like the program or not, they know how to operate or not, they produce high quality research or crap, Columbia has produced and is still producing plenty of well-connected academic neurosurgeons.

The other two potential places:
-UCSF: t's just a 10 year batch or so but who knows it might continue or fall apart after Berger's departure
-Hopkins: It's a mini Columbia. It heavily depends on its strong connection to Columbia

Sorry, no MGH, no BWH, no Duke, no Stanford, no WashU, no U of W, no Pitt, no UCLA, no UCSD, no Iowa, no NW and definitely no Barrow

Lastly, you can go anywhere and make a name for yourself
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#12
(03-30-2020, 11:37 PM)Glioma Wrote: I agree with drstrange's post but here are my thoughts since I can easily tell that most of the posts in this topic are coming from med students, residents and probably junior faculty whose knowledge is limited and mostly based on 5 years experience or so. When you want to talk about academic powerhouse it's not based on a batch of graduates but it's a work for decades...here I am talking about at least 20-30 years of actively producing academic neurosurgeons who are heavily involved in the leadership positions.

1) UVA: Although the great John Jane has died and the program lost a lot of its prestige, there is still a large portion of its graduates in leadership positions across the country. Not mentioning this program in any of the posts above just tells me how much inexperienced posters above are

2) USC: Almost same as above. Many faculty retired or left but still has a solid name and connections.

3) Columbia: Regardless you like the program or not, they know how to operate or not, they produce high quality research or crap, Columbia has produced and is still producing plenty of well-connected academic neurosurgeons.

The other two potential places:
-UCSF: t's just a 10 year batch or so but who knows it might continue or fall apart after Berger's departure
-Hopkins: It's a mini Columbia. It heavily depends on its strong connection to Columbia

Sorry, no MGH, no BWH, no Duke, no Stanford, no WashU, no U of W, no Pitt, no UCLA, no UCSD, no Iowa, no NW and definitely no Barrow

Lastly, you can go anywhere and make a name for yourself

I agree with almost everything you said but there's absolutely no way you can assess programs over their work "for decades" and exclude MGH. The program under Nick Zervas has been elite since the 80s. Since that time they've produced: Ogilvy, Fred Barker, Chiocca, Friedlander, Bob Carter, Eskandar, Kalkanis, Curry, Neimat, Brian Hoh, and Manish Aghi. Their recent graduates have also done pretty well early on, with Clark Chen, Cahill, Nahed, Gavin Dunn, Fecci, etc.
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#13
Glioma brings up a number of programs that oddly don't get a lot of mention - "the program of chairmen" being the most glaring example (UVA). I'd throw Toronto in there as another program that gets little to no play on here despite its history.

More and more, I get the feeling that neurosurgery is a specialty in need of a re-alignment. Powerful programs in the 80s-2000s had open vascular/skull base chairs. Many of those people are nearing the end of their careers and the new guard is getting ready to take over. Many programs are in a state of "transition" or rebuilding, while newer ones are waiting to be recognized. What will that look like for chairmen? Tumor or functional guys with RO1s? Endovascular supplanting open vascular (seems unlikely)? See the Flanigan 2018 JNS paper for some insight.

The key with everyone listed on this site as an up and comer is that they rapidly began trading on their own brand and they had a quality fellowship that got them a quality academic job. We've all seen people who do this from all manner of programs. What I would say is that going to a name brand program shaves a few years off your development time. Cream rises to the top, just the rate at which that occurs is different.
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#14
(04-01-2020, 10:51 AM)drstrange Wrote: Glioma brings up a number of programs that oddly don't get a lot of mention - "the program of chairmen" being the most glaring example (UVA). I'd throw Toronto in there as another program that gets little to no play on here despite its history.

More and more, I get the feeling that neurosurgery is a specialty in need of a re-alignment. Powerful programs in the 80s-2000s had open vascular/skull base chairs. Many of those people are nearing the end of their careers and the new guard is getting ready to take over. Many programs are in a state of "transition" or rebuilding, while newer ones are waiting to be recognized. What will that look like for chairmen? Tumor or functional guys with RO1s? Endovascular supplanting open vascular (seems unlikely)? See the Flanigan 2018 JNS paper for some insight.

The key with everyone listed on this site as an up and comer is that they rapidly began trading on their own brand and they had a quality fellowship that got them a quality academic job. We've all seen people who do this from all manner of programs. What I would say is that going to a name brand program shaves a few years off your development time. Cream rises to the top, just the rate at which that occurs is different.

Great post
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#15
UCSF
Pitt
Barrow
UW
WashU
MGH
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#16
(03-30-2020, 11:37 PM)Glioma Wrote: I agree with drstrange's post but here are my thoughts since I can easily tell that most of the posts in this topic are coming from med students, residents and probably junior faculty whose knowledge is limited and mostly based on 5 years experience or so. When you want to talk about academic powerhouse it's not based on a batch of graduates but it's a work for decades...here I am talking about at least 20-30 years of actively producing academic neurosurgeons who are heavily involved in the leadership positions.

1) UVA: Although the great John Jane has died and the program lost a lot of its prestige, there is still a large portion of its graduates in leadership positions across the country. Not mentioning this program in any of the posts above just tells me how much inexperienced posters above are

2) USC: Almost same as above. Many faculty retired or left but still has a solid name and connections.

3) Columbia: Regardless you like the program or not, they know how to operate or not, they produce high quality research or crap, Columbia has produced and is still producing plenty of well-connected academic neurosurgeons.

The other two potential places:
-UCSF: t's just a 10 year batch or so but who knows it might continue or fall apart after Berger's departure
-Hopkins: It's a mini Columbia. It heavily depends on its strong connection to Columbia

Sorry, no MGH, no BWH, no Duke, no Stanford, no WashU, no U of W, no Pitt, no UCLA, no UCSD, no Iowa, no NW and definitely no Barrow

Lastly, you can go anywhere and make a name for yourself

MGH has the most chairs in the nation (15)... seems like a solid place to train for an academic career
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#17
(04-29-2020, 10:47 AM)Guest Wrote:
(03-30-2020, 11:37 PM)Glioma Wrote: I agree with drstrange's post but here are my thoughts since I can easily tell that most of the posts in this topic are coming from med students, residents and probably junior faculty whose knowledge is limited and mostly based on 5 years experience or so. When you want to talk about academic powerhouse it's not based on a batch of graduates but it's a work for decades...here I am talking about at least 20-30 years of actively producing academic neurosurgeons who are heavily involved in the leadership positions.

1) UVA: Although the great John Jane has died and the program lost a lot of its prestige, there is still a large portion of its graduates in leadership positions across the country. Not mentioning this program in any of the posts above just tells me how much inexperienced posters above are

2) USC: Almost same as above. Many faculty retired or left but still has a solid name and connections.

3) Columbia: Regardless you like the program or not, they know how to operate or not, they produce high quality research or crap, Columbia has produced and is still producing plenty of well-connected academic neurosurgeons.

The other two potential places:
-UCSF: t's just a 10 year batch or so but who knows it might continue or fall apart after Berger's departure
-Hopkins: It's a mini Columbia. It heavily depends on its strong connection to Columbia

Sorry, no MGH, no BWH, no Duke, no Stanford, no WashU, no U of W, no Pitt, no UCLA, no UCSD, no Iowa, no NW and definitely no Barrow

Lastly, you can go anywhere and make a name for yourself

MGH has the most chairs in the nation (15)... seems like a solid place to train for an academic career

UVA still beats it... MGH has been always bad in operative experience. When UVA used to be great, it offered both unparalleled operative experience (1 year in UK/NZ) PLUS politics un organized neurosurgery
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#18
(04-29-2020, 12:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(04-29-2020, 10:47 AM)Guest Wrote:
(03-30-2020, 11:37 PM)Glioma Wrote: I agree with drstrange's post but here are my thoughts since I can easily tell that most of the posts in this topic are coming from med students, residents and probably junior faculty whose knowledge is limited and mostly based on 5 years experience or so. When you want to talk about academic powerhouse it's not based on a batch of graduates but it's a work for decades...here I am talking about at least 20-30 years of actively producing academic neurosurgeons who are heavily involved in the leadership positions.

1) UVA: Although the great John Jane has died and the program lost a lot of its prestige, there is still a large portion of its graduates in leadership positions across the country. Not mentioning this program in any of the posts above just tells me how much inexperienced posters above are

2) USC: Almost same as above. Many faculty retired or left but still has a solid name and connections.

3) Columbia: Regardless you like the program or not, they know how to operate or not, they produce high quality research or crap, Columbia has produced and is still producing plenty of well-connected academic neurosurgeons.

The other two potential places:
-UCSF: t's just a 10 year batch or so but who knows it might continue or fall apart after Berger's departure
-Hopkins: It's a mini Columbia. It heavily depends on its strong connection to Columbia

Sorry, no MGH, no BWH, no Duke, no Stanford, no WashU, no U of W, no Pitt, no UCLA, no UCSD, no Iowa, no NW and definitely no Barrow

Lastly, you can go anywhere and make a name for yourself

MGH has the most chairs in the nation (15)... seems like a solid place to train for an academic career

UVA still beats it... MGH has been always bad in operative experience. When UVA used to be great, it offered both unparalleled operative experience (1 year in UK/NZ) PLUS politics un organized neurosurgery

How important is operative experience in an academic career?
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#19
MGH, UVA, USC, UCSF
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#20
How important is operative experience in an academic career?
[/quote]

LOL. Not at all. Unless you mean "important" as in oftentimes inversely related. Those who can't actually operate often prefer to write/speak about operating.
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