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Neurosurgeon FALLING OFF?????
#11
(04-03-2020, 11:28 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:27 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:21 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 02:13 AM)Guest Wrote: I was looking at MGH neurosurgery alumni and found this guy Eric Chang who was listed as an attending at Southern New Hampshire. This sounded like private practice so I did a bit of research and found out he went to MIT for undergrad → HMS for med school → MGH for neurosurg residency, which is pretty much perfect educational experience up until that point. Unfortunately after that he did a fellowship at New England Baptist Hospital (???), joined the faculty of UW (pretty good I guess) for a year, but then left for private practice. What makes people like this who seem set up for a career as an academic neurosurgeon leave for private practice?

This post is absolutely ridiculous and illustrates how we breed pathologic surgeons.

This is a career, not a dick swinging contest. You're trying to fulfill yourself, take care of your family, and do a good job for your patients. The residents and surgeons who are the most successful, regardless of institution, find a way to do that and only that, and the prestige follows. If you don't believe a great surgeon can come from anywhere, you're fucking oblivious.

Stop looking at Doximity and US News, get your head out of your ass and start learning how to operate. Do a good job, then think about why it's not good enough. Don't half-ass anything. Learn from people you admire and figure out how to BE BETTER.

Nothing else matters, you twats.

But but but.... Harvard and MIT


Agree, solid post

These are stupid Med students posting here. Once you start residency you’ll realize prestige is secondary. You are already in an elite speciality.

Off topic question, does completing a residency at a “Top” Name-Brand program give you an advantage when looking or negotiating for private practice jobs?
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#12
(04-03-2020, 11:39 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:28 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:27 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:21 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 02:13 AM)Guest Wrote: I was looking at MGH neurosurgery alumni and found this guy Eric Chang who was listed as an attending at Southern New Hampshire. This sounded like private practice so I did a bit of research and found out he went to MIT for undergrad → HMS for med school → MGH for neurosurg residency, which is pretty much perfect educational experience up until that point. Unfortunately after that he did a fellowship at New England Baptist Hospital (???), joined the faculty of UW (pretty good I guess) for a year, but then left for private practice. What makes people like this who seem set up for a career as an academic neurosurgeon leave for private practice?

This post is absolutely ridiculous and illustrates how we breed pathologic surgeons.

This is a career, not a dick swinging contest. You're trying to fulfill yourself, take care of your family, and do a good job for your patients. The residents and surgeons who are the most successful, regardless of institution, find a way to do that and only that, and the prestige follows. If you don't believe a great surgeon can come from anywhere, you're fucking oblivious.

Stop looking at Doximity and US News, get your head out of your ass and start learning how to operate. Do a good job, then think about why it's not good enough. Don't half-ass anything. Learn from people you admire and figure out how to BE BETTER.

Nothing else matters, you twats.

But but but.... Harvard and MIT


Agree, solid post

These are stupid Med students posting here. Once you start residency you’ll realize prestige is secondary. You are already in an elite speciality.
Why is an MGH grad doing a fellowship at no name institution though

If you're still asking this question, you've missed the entire damn point.  Best of luck
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#13
First - specifically calling out someone's career choices anonymously on the internet with no context or reason beyond your own curiosity is both unprofessional and gross.

Aside from all of the very salient points raised above regarding the reasons why people choose a given career path - and to underscore the above, you will be in a very different phase of life when you are looking at jobs/deciding about fellowship than you are as a med student (and it has to be a med student, no current resident would need this explained to them) - keep in mind that fellowships in neurosurgery are very much about getting specific training in a specific area, most often with a specific individual. Excepting peds, no neurosurgery fellowships are matched, many are not accredited, and that doesn't mean they're bad. There are fellowships are big-name institutions that are not very good because of recent staff turnover (you're only there for a year, and if they suddenly find themselves needing to hire new staff in your fellowship area, that's really going to hurt things), and excellent fellowships at lesser known institutions because you're really just doing your fellowship with big name surgeon x or y. Further, a lot of people pursue fellowship really just for the cases, and so being at an institution that has a lot of volume in a specific area buy may not be a research powerhouse may actually be very much in line with their specific goals.

The influences that effect where people decided to go for med school/residency are only magnified the further down the road you get. Are you going to pick up and move across the country again for just a year? Do you have a family and/or a spouse with a career? Do you already have a job lined up and are just doing the most convenient fellowship in order to check a box/get experience your future employer wants? Did you change your mind late in residency about what you wanted to do and some of the more prestigious institutions were filled already because a lot of fellowships fill years out?
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#14
(04-03-2020, 11:21 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 02:13 AM)Guest Wrote: I was looking at MGH neurosurgery alumni and found this guy Eric Chang who was listed as an attending at Southern New Hampshire. This sounded like private practice so I did a bit of research and found out he went to MIT for undergrad → HMS for med school → MGH for neurosurg residency, which is pretty much perfect educational experience up until that point. Unfortunately after that he did a fellowship at New England Baptist Hospital (???), joined the faculty of UW (pretty good I guess) for a year, but then left for private practice. What makes people like this who seem set up for a career as an academic neurosurgeon leave for private practice?

This post is absolutely ridiculous and illustrates how we breed pathologic surgeons.

This is a career, not a dick swinging contest. You're trying to fulfill yourself, take care of your family, and do a good job for your patients. The residents and surgeons who are the most successful, regardless of institution, find a way to do that and only that, and the prestige follows. If you don't believe a great surgeon can come from anywhere, you're fucking oblivious.

Stop looking at Doximity and US News, get your head out of your ass and start learning how to operate. Do a good job, then think about why it's not good enough. Don't half-ass anything. Learn from people you admire and figure out how to BE BETTER.

Nothing else matters, you twats.

PGY-6 Neurosurgery Resident

I have to say that there are a fair number of medical students in this forum that shoot their mouth off on this forum.  My problem is actually the resident who wrote this.  Clearly, this resident gets his rocks off by coming onto a MEDICAL STUDENT forum and denigrating them for pleasure.  The medical student asked an honest question and yea he/she may be naive, but he/she is allowed to be because they're not even interns yet.

To whomever wrote this, your unprofessionalism is a poison and you are a hypocrite for calling out the process for breeding pathologic surgeons as you are in that breed.  It's a shame you are a peer of mine.  Be better. Inspire medical students to be better by being a role model for them.  Clearly your wires got crossed along the way.
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#15
(04-04-2020, 08:06 PM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:21 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 02:13 AM)Guest Wrote: I was looking at MGH neurosurgery alumni and found this guy Eric Chang who was listed as an attending at Southern New Hampshire. This sounded like private practice so I did a bit of research and found out he went to MIT for undergrad → HMS for med school → MGH for neurosurg residency, which is pretty much perfect educational experience up until that point. Unfortunately after that he did a fellowship at New England Baptist Hospital (???), joined the faculty of UW (pretty good I guess) for a year, but then left for private practice. What makes people like this who seem set up for a career as an academic neurosurgeon leave for private practice?

This post is absolutely ridiculous and illustrates how we breed pathologic surgeons.

This is a career, not a dick swinging contest. You're trying to fulfill yourself, take care of your family, and do a good job for your patients. The residents and surgeons who are the most successful, regardless of institution, find a way to do that and only that, and the prestige follows. If you don't believe a great surgeon can come from anywhere, you're fucking oblivious.

Stop looking at Doximity and US News, get your head out of your ass and start learning how to operate. Do a good job, then think about why it's not good enough. Don't half-ass anything. Learn from people you admire and figure out how to BE BETTER.

Nothing else matters, you twats.

PGY-6 Neurosurgery Resident

I have to say that there are a fair number of medical students in this forum that shoot their mouth off on this forum.  My problem is actually the resident who wrote this.  Clearly, this resident gets his rocks off by coming onto a MEDICAL STUDENT forum and denigrating them for pleasure.  The medical student asked an honest question and yea he/she may be naive, but he/she is allowed to be because they're not even interns yet.

To whomever wrote this, your unprofessionalism is a poison and you are a hypocrite for calling out the process for breeding pathologic surgeons as you are in that breed.  It's a shame you are a peer of mine.  Be better. Inspire medical students to be better by being a role model for them.  Clearly your wires got crossed along the way.


couldn't disagree more...whether OP was a med student or attending, doesn't matter.  never too early to disabuse them of the mistaken idea that prestige = quality.  people really pushing the field forward already know it.  our PD used to give us similar talks in residency (went to a historically strong program) and I took it to heart.
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#16
Totally agree. The lack of professionalism on this forum is a poison and disgusting.
Reply
#17
(04-04-2020, 11:31 PM)Guest Wrote:
(04-04-2020, 08:06 PM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 11:21 AM)Guest Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 02:13 AM)Guest Wrote: I was looking at MGH neurosurgery alumni and found this guy Eric Chang who was listed as an attending at Southern New Hampshire. This sounded like private practice so I did a bit of research and found out he went to MIT for undergrad → HMS for med school → MGH for neurosurg residency, which is pretty much perfect educational experience up until that point. Unfortunately after that he did a fellowship at New England Baptist Hospital (???), joined the faculty of UW (pretty good I guess) for a year, but then left for private practice. What makes people like this who seem set up for a career as an academic neurosurgeon leave for private practice?

This post is absolutely ridiculous and illustrates how we breed pathologic surgeons.

This is a career, not a dick swinging contest. You're trying to fulfill yourself, take care of your family, and do a good job for your patients. The residents and surgeons who are the most successful, regardless of institution, find a way to do that and only that, and the prestige follows. If you don't believe a great surgeon can come from anywhere, you're fucking oblivious.

Stop looking at Doximity and US News, get your head out of your ass and start learning how to operate. Do a good job, then think about why it's not good enough. Don't half-ass anything. Learn from people you admire and figure out how to BE BETTER.

Nothing else matters, you twats.

PGY-6 Neurosurgery Resident

I have to say that there are a fair number of medical students in this forum that shoot their mouth off on this forum.  My problem is actually the resident who wrote this.  Clearly, this resident gets his rocks off by coming onto a MEDICAL STUDENT forum and denigrating them for pleasure.  The medical student asked an honest question and yea he/she may be naive, but he/she is allowed to be because they're not even interns yet.

To whomever wrote this, your unprofessionalism is a poison and you are a hypocrite for calling out the process for breeding pathologic surgeons as you are in that breed.  It's a shame you are a peer of mine.  Be better. Inspire medical students to be better by being a role model for them.  Clearly your wires got crossed along the way.


couldn't disagree more...whether OP was a med student or attending, doesn't matter.  never too early to disabuse them of the mistaken idea that prestige = quality.  people really pushing the field forward already know it.  our PD used to give us similar talks in residency (went to a historically strong program) and I took it to heart.

the idea of prestige=quality is not being argued.  In many instances, residency is what you make it no matter where you are.  The poster called the medical students "twat," described them as "fucking oblivious," telling them to "get their head out of their ass."  This person has no class and does not belong in medicine, much less neurosurgery. If you have to resort to this strategy to get your point across, your point is likely weak.
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#18
Neurosurgery faculty here and very familiar with Eric Chang specifically. First off, I will not comment in detail on Chang's life path or choices, except to say 1) New England Baptist has an excellent spine surgeon who offered additional training that was of value. Don't dismiss a fellowship because you are unfamiliar with it or feel the place itself is beneath you. Would you dismiss a chance to work with Al-Mefty because he was in Arkansas or Van Loveren because he is in Tampa and neither is in the gilded halls of UCSF, Barrow, MGH, Hopkins? 2) Chang is not at Southern New Hampshire, but has moved on and made decisions that are best for him.

I do browse this forum to get a sense of what medical students and residents are thinking about these days. This post seems to deserve a response.

All of your years in college, medical school, residency, and fellowship are not perfectly predictive of your opportunities when you hit 33-38 years old and are finally done with training. Most of you are looking up, still waiting for the payoff when you can earn $800k+ and live happily ever after in private practice, or have a surgeon-scientist career with 3 R01's supporting 12 post-docs and 7 grad students. But what you THINK you want now may not be what you want at the end of it all, or maybe not what is on offer. Keep in mind neurosurgery is a small field. Maybe that plum private practice career isn't the lifestyle you want, or maybe the big academic departments aren't looking for a skull base surgeon with two first-author cell papers who is demanding a $1M lab startup package. You suck it up and find a way to be happy, because in the end you will have the opportunity to use your neurosurgery skills to help patients, and you will get paid at least a fair amount for it. Maybe after some time that ideal job comes along and you can shift in to it, or maybe what you settled on turns out to be pretty perfect.

No want wants to be reduced to an epitaph and have their personal choices judged by people who don't know them. Just work hard and make your own decisions about your own life.
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