Penn State 3+7

[Guest]

Are there new programs like this being instituted in the near future?

[Guest]

NYU you can get an MD in 3 years but it has to be a special circumstance

[Guest]

OP, I actually have so good information for you regarding this program. I hope the following helps:

So basically without additional information, it's not immediately clear whether you're competitive for this program. Let me explain why. First, the program is independent from regular MD admissions. On paper, you seem competitive for MD admissions to Penn State COM. I say "seem" because I am assuming you have a strong Personal Statement, secondaries, LORS, and interview skills. Not just the 4.0 and the high MCAT. Obviously you need to be well-rounded to get into any MD school in the continental US.

Assuming you get in, and before you matriculate, you would reach out to the program coordinator/express interest, fill out a form or two, and then wait to see if you get in. Now it's my understanding that in this part of the process, they are not too concerned with you undergrad stats and AMCAS application. Does it matter? Sure. But they're more looking for experience shadowing neurosurgeons, perhaps some research in the field, some measurable degree of interest in committing to a unique pathway like this one. Anyways, all of this selection stuff happens before you start med school so that once selected, you can seamlessly transition into the accelerated 3 year MD program.

Penn State is pretty neat in that they have a lot of these programs- for Ortho, Family Med, EM, and some others.

As to whether this program is actually a good idea, I will defer to the post on the first page made on 4-17-20 at 9:24 p.m. I basically agree with what that user had to say. If you are even halfway decent at this "game," you probably have better avenues down the road. Or simply different avenues. And no disrespect to Penn State or their Department of NSGY. Actually it's more about you. Think about what the user in that post said: first, your goals now won't be your goals in 10 years. A lot of your life still has to happen in your early 20s, to mid 20, to late 20s, to early 30s. Dating, a relationship, possibly marriage, aging parents, speciality interests, exposure to people, ideas, areas of medicine, etc. NSGY is a small field with a lot of moving parts more so than many other areas of medicine (for reasons I won't get into). Who knows where this department will be in a few years? Or what your specific interests in NSGY will be at that time? Maybe some other group gets some really fantastic endo people and you want to go there. Or maybe you become interested in spine and there's a sudden flight of spine from Penn State or a sudden entrance of Peds people. Obviously I'm painting with a broad brush here, but do you see where I'm going with this? There are simply too many variables, and it's best to go through the normal pathway, take time to do research and build connections, and then see what part of the country you may like to end up in and whom you'd like to work with, for what reasons, and where you'd like to take your career after that.

Back to the 3+7 program you're interested in. How competitive is it? Honestly, I don't think it's super competitive. Let's put it this way- it's less competitive than getting into their medical school. For sure. Why? First, NSGY is pretty self-selecting. You simply won't get a bunch of people from Day 1 of medical school who are like I'm going into NSGY. It's not like first semester of college where everyone and their mom wants to be a doctor. Totally different "games." I'm sure they get a handful of people every year, and perhaps some years, no people. Looking at their website, it doesn't look like they take more than 1 person per year, and some years don't match anyone from their "home team." So if you really want it, and provided you get into the med school first, I'm sure you can get it. You seem like you have the "game" down. But do keep in mind, if you commit to this program, it would be really bad to uncommit down the road especially after taking time, resources, and mentoring from this program. I'm not talking about changing your mind and going into another speciality. That's understandable. I'm talking about entering into 3+7, doing the 3 as the chosen "golden child" of the department, and then cutting your losses and jumping ship somewhere far and away. In that case, you will have burned bridges, and in a surgical subspecialty, you're pretty much toast. Again, much much better to attend the school if you really want to for whatever reason, express interest, shadow and do research, get the letters, build a network, and then evaluate where you'd like to go near the tail end of things. Feel out the department at home as well as others on aways (sub-Is), and make your decisions then.

Good luck!!

[Guest]

Wow thank you so much for that explanation! I’m just concerned that,if I apply during a year where 4 or so other students are interested, there will be too much competition and ultimately I won’t get the spot. If you had to guess, what would you say the average number of applicants to that program are? Also are there any other programs like it where you are guaranteed to match going into med school? Thanks again

[Guest]

(05-01-2020, 07:57 PM)Guest Wrote: Wow thank you so much for that explanation! I’m just concerned that,if I apply during a year where 4 or so other students are interested, there will be too much competition and ultimately I won’t get the spot. If you had to guess, what would you say the average number of applicants to that program are? Also are there any other programs like it where you are guaranteed to match going into med school? Thanks again

Honestly, I don't really know. I'm guessing that, at most, there will be 1 or 2 other students in addition to yourself. So maybe 3 total at most? 

But your concern is valid... I may be wrong, but I think based on how the timing of this all works out, you will be committed to Penn State for sure and it will be too late to change schools if you are not accepted into this program. But it's not THAT big of a deal b/c you can still work as closely with the department as you like, just as folks in other schools without this program do so.

So here's the deal... only go through with this if you are comfortable being a student at Penn State for 4 years. Period. And on the level, it's a great school. Nothing to be ashamed of. 

The doors towards your dream speciality will always be open regardless of whether you get into any one school, or any one program. So my advice is to develop the mindset that wherever you go or whether or not you get into this or a similar program, you will explore your NSGY interests and see where it takes you. This way you will be streets ahead of anyone in any 3+7 program, or anything similar. Don't underestimate how far a growth mindset+resilience can take you in life or in medicine.

Any other programs like it? I'm sure there are a few, but I don't know of any off of the top of my head. That's up to you to research and find out!

[Guest]

Oh wow, so I’d have to commit even before I know whether or not I get accepted into the program?

[Guest]

Not OP but I’m also interested. It would just suck to commit to pscom and then not get the spot. There’s gotta be a way to know whether or not you’ll get in before you commit

[Guest]

email the administrator and ask.

[Guest]

Did already

[Guest]

(05-02-2020, 03:12 AM)Guest Wrote: Oh wow, so I’d have to commit even before I know whether or not I get accepted into the program?

You do?