(04-30-2020, 11:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah they should have just allowed for more flexibility with letters instead of mandating that there be a gen surg one. Very disappointed in this policy
I'm guessing that you've never seen some of these LOR's. You're having someone who has had minimal interaction with you write a recommendation for you. the majority of LOR's are summaries of your CV, what your presentation was, and that the residents liked you... 95% of letters say almost the exact same thing. What more do you expect from someone who doesn't really know you. With that being said, some of the best letters, letters that really help you know the applicant come from research mentors, non academic neurosurgery mentors, and non neurosurgeons. These letters have a great deal of thought put into them and really give you an understanding of who you are interviewing. So.... with that said, I personally think that the quality of letters is going to be much better this cycle and there will not be this non sense emphasis on where someone did an away.
EM does a standardized LOR type system that everyone gets so there is not a lot of emphasis where you rotated, but more on how you did compared to everyone. Much more objective and useful.
But what if you've had more than just minimal interaction with them? And they've known you for a prolonged period of time
I assume you mean your home institution LOR's? Home institutions give good letters. Everyone needs to take a break and realize that everyone is going through the same thing. No one has any advantage over someone else. in the match, across almost all specialties, people stay near home/med school. This seems to hold true in Nsg has well. So yes, people interview and do aways all over the country, most end up close to home or have some kind of connection to the area.
(04-30-2020, 11:13 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah they should have just allowed for more flexibility with letters instead of mandating that there be a gen surg one. Very disappointed in this policy
I'm guessing that you've never seen some of these LOR's. You're having someone who has had minimal interaction with you write a recommendation for you. the majority of LOR's are summaries of your CV, what your presentation was, and that the residents liked you... 95% of letters say almost the exact same thing. What more do you expect from someone who doesn't really know you. With that being said, some of the best letters, letters that really help you know the applicant come from research mentors, non academic neurosurgery mentors, and non neurosurgeons. These letters have a great deal of thought put into them and really give you an understanding of who you are interviewing. So.... with that said, I personally think that the quality of letters is going to be much better this cycle and there will not be this non sense emphasis on where someone did an away.
EM does a standardized LOR type system that everyone gets so there is not a lot of emphasis where you rotated, but more on how you did compared to everyone. Much more objective and useful.
But what if you've had more than just minimal interaction with them? And they've known you for a prolonged period of time
I assume you mean your home institution LOR's? Home institutions give good letters. Everyone needs to take a break and realize that everyone is going through the same thing. No one has any advantage over someone else. in the match, across almost all specialties, people stay near home/med school. This seems to hold true in Nsg has well. So yes, people interview and do aways all over the country, most end up close to home or have some kind of connection to the area.
As a previous poster mentioned, this severely hurts students who go to mid/low tier schools. Top med schools will have the home connections to send their students across the country and will be less limited by the trope of ending up in the same geographic region
(04-30-2020, 11:22 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:13 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah they should have just allowed for more flexibility with letters instead of mandating that there be a gen surg one. Very disappointed in this policy
I'm guessing that you've never seen some of these LOR's. You're having someone who has had minimal interaction with you write a recommendation for you. the majority of LOR's are summaries of your CV, what your presentation was, and that the residents liked you... 95% of letters say almost the exact same thing. What more do you expect from someone who doesn't really know you. With that being said, some of the best letters, letters that really help you know the applicant come from research mentors, non academic neurosurgery mentors, and non neurosurgeons. These letters have a great deal of thought put into them and really give you an understanding of who you are interviewing. So.... with that said, I personally think that the quality of letters is going to be much better this cycle and there will not be this non sense emphasis on where someone did an away.
EM does a standardized LOR type system that everyone gets so there is not a lot of emphasis where you rotated, but more on how you did compared to everyone. Much more objective and useful.
But what if you've had more than just minimal interaction with them? And they've known you for a prolonged period of time
I assume you mean your home institution LOR's? Home institutions give good letters. Everyone needs to take a break and realize that everyone is going through the same thing. No one has any advantage over someone else. in the match, across almost all specialties, people stay near home/med school. This seems to hold true in Nsg has well. So yes, people interview and do aways all over the country, most end up close to home or have some kind of connection to the area.
As a previous poster mentioned, this severely hurts students who go to mid/low tier schools. Top med schools will have the home connections to send their students across the country and will be less limited by the trope of ending up in the same geographic region
Yes and people who have lower board scores/are weak on paper are absolutely screwed because they can't shine on a Sub-I that usually gets them a foot in the door.
(04-30-2020, 11:22 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:13 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah they should have just allowed for more flexibility with letters instead of mandating that there be a gen surg one. Very disappointed in this policy
I'm guessing that you've never seen some of these LOR's. You're having someone who has had minimal interaction with you write a recommendation for you. the majority of LOR's are summaries of your CV, what your presentation was, and that the residents liked you... 95% of letters say almost the exact same thing. What more do you expect from someone who doesn't really know you. With that being said, some of the best letters, letters that really help you know the applicant come from research mentors, non academic neurosurgery mentors, and non neurosurgeons. These letters have a great deal of thought put into them and really give you an understanding of who you are interviewing. So.... with that said, I personally think that the quality of letters is going to be much better this cycle and there will not be this non sense emphasis on where someone did an away.
EM does a standardized LOR type system that everyone gets so there is not a lot of emphasis where you rotated, but more on how you did compared to everyone. Much more objective and useful.
But what if you've had more than just minimal interaction with them? And they've known you for a prolonged period of time
I assume you mean your home institution LOR's? Home institutions give good letters. Everyone needs to take a break and realize that everyone is going through the same thing. No one has any advantage over someone else. in the match, across almost all specialties, people stay near home/med school. This seems to hold true in Nsg has well. So yes, people interview and do aways all over the country, most end up close to home or have some kind of connection to the area.
As a previous poster mentioned, this severely hurts students who go to mid/low tier schools. Top med schools will have the home connections to send their students across the country and will be less limited by the trope of ending up in the same geographic region
Same with students that don't have a home program. How are we supposed to get spots at local hospitals when most hospitals aren't taking students? The ones that are will already be backlogged with home students who are rotating for twice the amount of time
(04-30-2020, 11:32 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:22 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:13 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 11:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:41 PM)Guest Wrote: I'm guessing that you've never seen some of these LOR's. You're having someone who has had minimal interaction with you write a recommendation for you. the majority of LOR's are summaries of your CV, what your presentation was, and that the residents liked you... 95% of letters say almost the exact same thing. What more do you expect from someone who doesn't really know you. With that being said, some of the best letters, letters that really help you know the applicant come from research mentors, non academic neurosurgery mentors, and non neurosurgeons. These letters have a great deal of thought put into them and really give you an understanding of who you are interviewing. So.... with that said, I personally think that the quality of letters is going to be much better this cycle and there will not be this non sense emphasis on where someone did an away.
EM does a standardized LOR type system that everyone gets so there is not a lot of emphasis where you rotated, but more on how you did compared to everyone. Much more objective and useful.
But what if you've had more than just minimal interaction with them? And they've known you for a prolonged period of time
I assume you mean your home institution LOR's? Home institutions give good letters. Everyone needs to take a break and realize that everyone is going through the same thing. No one has any advantage over someone else. in the match, across almost all specialties, people stay near home/med school. This seems to hold true in Nsg has well. So yes, people interview and do aways all over the country, most end up close to home or have some kind of connection to the area.
As a previous poster mentioned, this severely hurts students who go to mid/low tier schools. Top med schools will have the home connections to send their students across the country and will be less limited by the trope of ending up in the same geographic region
Same with students that don't have a home program. How are we supposed to get spots at local hospitals when most hospitals aren't taking students? The ones that are will already be backlogged with home students who are rotating for twice the amount of time
Take a research year and get a lot of pubs if you have low board scores / don't have home institution / are a DO applicant
It's much better to take a year than to go unmatched the first time
(04-30-2020, 10:52 PM)smithers Wrote: So to be totally clear, the 1 gen surg letter is mandated? This is true even if we have a research letter from an outside institution and/or a PhD mentor letter?
Someone asked this question and Dr. Selden recs to use both research letter and general surgery letter, which I guess then 2 home letters.
The biggest issue with this policy is mandated general surgery letter. Some of us may not have general surgery recently, and I feel like this policy is forcing people to ask for a mediocre letter instead of using a better one from a neurosurgeon or someone who knows candidate longer.
(05-01-2020, 12:14 AM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:52 PM)smithers Wrote: So to be totally clear, the 1 gen surg letter is mandated? This is true even if we have a research letter from an outside institution and/or a PhD mentor letter?
Someone asked this question and Dr. Selden recs to use both research letter and general surgery letter, which I guess then 2 home letters.
The biggest issue with this policy is mandated general surgery letter. Some of us may not have general surgery recently, and I feel like this policy is forcing people to ask for a mediocre letter instead of using a better one from a neurosurgeon or someone who knows candidate longer.
Agreed!
(05-01-2020, 12:29 AM)Guest Wrote: (05-01-2020, 12:14 AM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:52 PM)smithers Wrote: So to be totally clear, the 1 gen surg letter is mandated? This is true even if we have a research letter from an outside institution and/or a PhD mentor letter?
Someone asked this question and Dr. Selden recs to use both research letter and general surgery letter, which I guess then 2 home letters.
The biggest issue with this policy is mandated general surgery letter. Some of us may not have general surgery recently, and I feel like this policy is forcing people to ask for a mediocre letter instead of using a better one from a neurosurgeon or someone who knows candidate longer.
Agreed!
Exactly. This was a poor attempt to try and "level the playing field" by stopping people from doing aways at places that would have had them. As a result they're actually penalizing the very students who don't have a strong home department/other application weaknesses and depended on these for their applications.
(05-01-2020, 12:38 AM)Guest Wrote: (05-01-2020, 12:29 AM)Guest Wrote: (05-01-2020, 12:14 AM)Guest Wrote: (04-30-2020, 10:52 PM)smithers Wrote: So to be totally clear, the 1 gen surg letter is mandated? This is true even if we have a research letter from an outside institution and/or a PhD mentor letter?
Someone asked this question and Dr. Selden recs to use both research letter and general surgery letter, which I guess then 2 home letters.
The biggest issue with this policy is mandated general surgery letter. Some of us may not have general surgery recently, and I feel like this policy is forcing people to ask for a mediocre letter instead of using a better one from a neurosurgeon or someone who knows candidate longer.
Agreed!
Exactly. This was a poor attempt to try and "level the playing field" by stopping people from doing aways at places that would have had them. As a result they're actually penalizing the very students who don't have a strong home department/other application weaknesses and depended on these for their applications.
Any chance they consider revisions to the policy?
On the contrary, I think the gen surg requirement is probably the most equalizing mechanism out of anything they had proposed. An earlier poster said it nicely, it's the non-neurosurgeons that are often the most perceptive about your abilities. With the exception of letters from research mentors, everyone knows that most neurosurgery LORs are generic 2-3 sentences of BS. Nice to see the PDs separating the students that genuinely cared about the time they spent on the wards vs those that acted their singular goal in life was neurosurgery and shrugged off every other rotation
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