(03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
Get off your high horse. These and other 2nd look programs that I’m aware of were all in specific locations and looking for a specific type of person. Residency is 7 years long. Are you really going to adhere to “rules” when almost all applicants and departments are fully vaccinated and deal with covid patients on a daily basis? Ridiculous.
2nd looks made a great deal of difference to me because in the absence of them, all that exists are rumors and outdated advice
(03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
If a program you're interested in tells you to visit, you show up. This isn't neurology or EM where you can shoot down one program and waltz into another.
I guarantee you that regardless of ego or perceived malignancy, this is reality and you have to play the game if you want a seat at the table.
(03-11-2021, 02:49 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
If a program you're interested in tells you to visit, you show up. This isn't neurology or EM where you can shoot down one program and waltz into another.
I guarantee you that regardless of ego or perceived malignancy, this is reality and you have to play the game if you want a seat at the table.
Amen. And for programs that told me I should visit, when I wasn’t going to put them in my top 10 or so, I didn’t. But if I was interested and the residents or PD said I should visit, I did
Anyone else receive to RTM/second look invite?
(03-11-2021, 02:46 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
Get off your high horse. These and other 2nd look programs that I’m aware of were all in specific locations and looking for a specific type of person. Residency is 7 years long. Are you really going to adhere to “rules” when almost all applicants and departments are fully vaccinated and deal with covid patients on a daily basis? Ridiculous.
2nd looks made a great deal of difference to me because in the absence of them, all that exists are rumors and outdated advice
Is this for programs that offered an in-person second look to specific applicants or for programs that made a blanket statement to all interviewees such as “if you’re in the area...”?
And are 2nd looks more for applicants or can attending one bump you up on the rank list?
(03-11-2021, 02:38 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:12 PM)Guest Wrote: (01-25-2021, 05:48 PM)Guest Wrote: I don't think anyone wants to name and shame a place they're interested in and that may have only reached out to a few people.
That being said, lots of programs said something to the tune of "you should see a city before you move there" or "if you're in the area..."
Can confirm that multiple in person second looks took place this year. I saw a few of the same applicants on the post-interview trail.
No one invited is dumb enough to name these institutions, but I visited a few "top tier" programs and a few "hidden gems".
Across the board, residents are just as eager to meet us as we are them.
Why not? Just name them
Pitt, BNI
Mayo
(03-11-2021, 03:06 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:38 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:12 PM)Guest Wrote: (01-25-2021, 05:48 PM)Guest Wrote: I don't think anyone wants to name and shame a place they're interested in and that may have only reached out to a few people.
That being said, lots of programs said something to the tune of "you should see a city before you move there" or "if you're in the area..."
Can confirm that multiple in person second looks took place this year. I saw a few of the same applicants on the post-interview trail.
No one invited is dumb enough to name these institutions, but I visited a few "top tier" programs and a few "hidden gems".
Across the board, residents are just as eager to meet us as we are them.
Why not? Just name them
Pitt, BNI
Mayo
Did these programs initiate the second look or did applicants reach out?
(03-11-2021, 02:46 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
Get off your high horse. These and other 2nd look programs that I’m aware of were all in specific locations and looking for a specific type of person. Residency is 7 years long. Are you really going to adhere to “rules” when almost all applicants and departments are fully vaccinated and deal with covid patients on a daily basis? Ridiculous.
2nd looks made a great deal of difference to me because in the absence of them, all that exists are rumors and outdated advice
And you think that a 2nd look isn't going to be a rose-colored glasses view of the program? They're gonna sell you the good and hide the bad whether it's in person or virtual. It's pointless regardless.
If f a program asks you to come, you come. No question about that.
The obsession with in person 2nd looks in neurosurgery is pointless and further attracts applicants with bags of money to apply while leaving others in the weeds. It's a long commitment at 7 years long of course but you are never going to get a real feel of a program in-person or virtually. It's all a bunch of theatre until you see how things really are once you're a resident there. Nothing will change that.
And with all of the talk of the SNS about diversity and inclusion, the obsession with in-person 2nd looks from the ivory tower programs within the field is hypocritical
(03-11-2021, 03:05 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:46 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
Get off your high horse. These and other 2nd look programs that I’m aware of were all in specific locations and looking for a specific type of person. Residency is 7 years long. Are you really going to adhere to “rules” when almost all applicants and departments are fully vaccinated and deal with covid patients on a daily basis? Ridiculous.
2nd looks made a great deal of difference to me because in the absence of them, all that exists are rumors and outdated advice
Is this for programs that offered an in-person second look to specific applicants or for programs that made a blanket statement to all interviewees such as “if you’re in the area...”?
And are 2nd looks more for applicants or can attending one bump you up on the rank list?
I know for certain that at least 5/8 visits I did bumped me up on the rank list bc I would later get an "unsolicited" email from the PD or Chair saying "they enjoyed interviewing me... would be a great fit... well liked by the residents, etc". I only received generic correspondences prior to this.
(03-11-2021, 03:25 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:46 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
Get off your high horse. These and other 2nd look programs that I’m aware of were all in specific locations and looking for a specific type of person. Residency is 7 years long. Are you really going to adhere to “rules” when almost all applicants and departments are fully vaccinated and deal with covid patients on a daily basis? Ridiculous.
2nd looks made a great deal of difference to me because in the absence of them, all that exists are rumors and outdated advice
And you think that a 2nd look isn't going to be a rose-colored glasses view of the program? They're gonna sell you the good and hide the bad whether it's in person or virtual. It's pointless regardless.
If f a program asks you to come, you come. No question about that.
The obsession with in person 2nd looks in neurosurgery is pointless and further attracts applicants with bags of money to apply while leaving others in the weeds. It's a long commitment at 7 years long of course but you are never going to get a real feel of a program in-person or virtually. It's all a bunch of theatre until you see how things really are once you're a resident there. Nothing will change that.
And with all of the talk of the SNS about diversity and inclusion, the obsession with in-person 2nd looks from the ivory tower programs within the field is hypocritical
a second look is a chance to offer a "rose-colored" version of yourself as well. you're seeing half the picture. If you need to take loans to do this, then thats what you do (that's what I did). Maybe you're of the same mindset as those who turned down interviews to "make room for other applicants", but I for one scheduled and went to as many interviews as possible. It sucks that its a dogfight but if your back is against the wall you better be swinging.
(03-11-2021, 02:39 PM)Guest Wrote: If a program is willing to blatantly ignore an ongoing pandemic and invite select applicants from all over to come to their hospitals under the table, how do you think that reflects upon their program and its leadership as a whole when it comes to other issues?
Programs that did virtual Second Looks this year or were eager to talk with applicants one-on-one (via video conference or Phone call) post-interview did the right thing – allow that avenue of communication to take place in a safe manner.
I'm not saying the SNS is right on everything but I think this goes well beyond that. Look at what other specialties in medicine are doing. Every neurosurgery program thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread and thinks they can bend the rules to their whim, but in reality, they're not any more special than anyone else. At the end of the day they will produce a qualified surgeon like 99% of programs out there, whether or not they bent the rules and did an in-person second look.
Egotistical programs always gonna be egotistical.
I heard Spetzler actually invented Wonder Bread at BNI
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