Hi everybody,
I am a medical student (just became a 4th year), interested in applying into neurosurgery. The issue is I have no neurosurgery or neuroscience research. I do have plenty of research in other areas (immunology, basic science) and several first author publications (all in basic science application to clinic). I earned a PhD (nothing to do with neuroscience, or anything to do with neuro or surgery for that matter). I did do one small group project on neuroscience in my undergrad, which resulted in a poster. I am wondering what your advice is about how programs will look at this and what I can do from now until October to enhance the application.
Have any of you residents had a similar experience? (came to neurosurgery late and still matched?)
Thanks for any advice.
Neurosurgeon to be
Unregistered
So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
I disagree vehemently with the above poster. If you decided this is your passion, it doesn't matter how late you entered. I do think it is vital to have some research in the field, especially given you are a PhD. I would start by talking to your school's PD or Chair to see what advice they have and maybe even consider taking a gap year to get the research if you are genuinely passionate.
I agree that you should talk with your program PD and/or Chair. Set up a meeting, dress up nicely and explain the situation. Thats if you are 100% committed. Have you done a rotation? Should definitely make sure you scrub or shadow a neurosurgeon before making the decision. Personally i wouldnt do a yr off since u already have a phd with basic science research. You can explain the application of your research to neurosurgery in your personal statement. Dont listen to the first reply. There are plenty of ppl who learn late and match. If u have a great cv with genuine interest you should be fine
(06-10-2021, 09:50 PM)Neurosurgeon to be Wrote: So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
lol... are you an angry resident or med student?
Angry Med student
Unregistered
(06-10-2021, 10:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-10-2021, 09:50 PM)Neurosurgeon to be Wrote: So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
lol... are you an angry resident or med student?
Med student. I spent the past 3 years--and 4 years in college--preparing to be a neurosurgeon, doing research in the field, shadowing, building up connections, attending conferences, getting the scores, etc. And now this guy just want to walk in and take my spot??
Go to general surgery or something. Sorry buddy but people like myself come first. we put in the work, gained the experience, gained the expertise, and contributed to the field. and to get pushed aside by some "late bloomer" who coulden't be bothered to put in any work is truly an insult. it shouldn't work that way.
To the OP: You had better go into some other specialty that values directionless individuals. NS is a field that values hard work and dedication.
(06-10-2021, 10:54 PM)Angry Med student Wrote: (06-10-2021, 10:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-10-2021, 09:50 PM)Neurosurgeon to be Wrote: So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
lol... are you an angry resident or med student?
Med student. I spent the past 3 years--and 4 years in college--preparing to be a neurosurgeon, doing research in the field, shadowing, building up connections, attending conferences, getting the scores, etc. And now this guy just want to walk in and take my spot??
Go to general surgery or something. Sorry buddy but people like myself come first. we put in the work, gained the experience, gained the expertise, and contributed to the field. and to get pushed aside by some "late bloomer" who coulden't be bothered to put in any work is truly an insult. it shouldn't work that way.
To the OP: You had better go into some other specialty that values directionless individuals. NS is a field that values hard work and dedication.
This is the much more entitled post. You’re not entitled to a spot because you came to the realization of nsgy sooner. You’re also not necessarily going to be more successful than OP. He definitely has more research skills than you (to the extent that you actually care based on your career goals, which could be not at all and there wouldn’t be anything wrong with that)
You’re two different applicants who are likely going to appeal to two different types of programs. No one is entitled to anything. Talk to your mentors, be genuine, be humble. They’ll point you in the right direction. OP, you’re a bit late in the game for such a difficult field, which may raise some flags, but with the right spin and direction, there are programs that will likely want someone with your background
(06-10-2021, 10:54 PM)Angry Med student Wrote: (06-10-2021, 10:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-10-2021, 09:50 PM)Neurosurgeon to be Wrote: So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
lol... are you an angry resident or med student?
Med student. I spent the past 3 years--and 4 years in college--preparing to be a neurosurgeon, doing research in the field, shadowing, building up connections, attending conferences, getting the scores, etc. And now this guy just want to walk in and take my spot??
Go to general surgery or something. Sorry buddy but people like myself come first. we put in the work, gained the experience, gained the expertise, and contributed to the field. and to get pushed aside by some "late bloomer" who coulden't be bothered to put in any work is truly an insult. it shouldn't work that way.
To the OP: You had better go into some other specialty that values directionless individuals. NS is a field that values hard work and dedication.
This is really rich for a med student yet to match in the field, and displays an attitude that I wouldn't want in a co-resident. You haven't a clue what "NS" is "as a field" as yet, and you haven't earned the right to comment because you have no idea what it takes to produce a competent surgeon.
If my surgeon is going to put me first, do a competent job, and have honesty and integrity in his (her) practice, why the hell would I care when he decided to enter the field? Deciding you want to be a neurosurgeon as a college students doesn't give you a birthright to enter the field - on the contrary, to me as a PD, I would want to know if you had truly tested your passion for the field enough before you decided to enter it. The applicants that get a lot of attention in our meetings are the ones who seemingly found neurosurgery on a whim, whenever that was, and were able to articulate thru research, clinical service, interviews, etc. how dedicated they have become to the field. I know some faculty who see the "born to be a neurosurgeon" trope as a bit of a red flag. If you haven't ever had a shred of doubt that the field is for you, then you haven't thought about it enough.
To the OP: your PhD puts you in a good place. It shows you can put your mind to research and execute. But you need to show us, and quickly, that you can be good clinically. Shadow and get onto the NS service as much as you can. Show up to cases even on your days off. Take extra call on the weekends on easier rotations. Get to know senior faculty in the department. If the rest of your application is solid, you have a good shot.
Angry Med Student
Unregistered
(06-10-2021, 11:32 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-10-2021, 10:54 PM)Angry Med student Wrote: (06-10-2021, 10:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-10-2021, 09:50 PM)Neurosurgeon to be Wrote: So why did you all of a sudden decide to go into NS? It looks to me like you feel entitled to NS. Lots of people have put in a lot of effort into meeting PDs and attending NS conferences and contributing to the field. And now you feel entitled to take away a spot because you "changed your mind." This is completely outrageous. We need dedicated people, not entitled guys who don't put in the work.
Sorry bud, stick to family medicine.
So you just want to take someone's spot? Someone who worked harder than you? Who contributed to the field? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
lol... are you an angry resident or med student?
Med student. I spent the past 3 years--and 4 years in college--preparing to be a neurosurgeon, doing research in the field, shadowing, building up connections, attending conferences, getting the scores, etc. And now this guy just want to walk in and take my spot??
Go to general surgery or something. Sorry buddy but people like myself come first. we put in the work, gained the experience, gained the expertise, and contributed to the field. and to get pushed aside by some "late bloomer" who coulden't be bothered to put in any work is truly an insult. it shouldn't work that way.
To the OP: You had better go into some other specialty that values directionless individuals. NS is a field that values hard work and dedication.
This is really rich for a med student yet to match in the field, and displays an attitude that I wouldn't want in a co-resident. You haven't a clue what "NS" is "as a field" as yet, and you haven't earned the right to comment because you have no idea what it takes to produce a competent surgeon.
If my surgeon is going to put me first, do a competent job, and have honesty and integrity in his (her) practice, why the hell would I care when he decided to enter the field? Deciding you want to be a neurosurgeon as a college students doesn't give you a birthright to enter the field - on the contrary, to me as a PD, I would want to know if you had truly tested your passion for the field enough before you decided to enter it. The applicants that get a lot of attention in our meetings are the ones who seemingly found neurosurgery on a whim, whenever that was, and were able to articulate thru research, clinical service, interviews, etc. how dedicated they have become to the field. I know some faculty who see the "born to be a neurosurgeon" trope as a bit of a red flag. If you haven't ever had a shred of doubt that the field is for you, then you haven't thought about it enough.
To the OP: your PhD puts you in a good place. It shows you can put your mind to research and execute. But you need to show us, and quickly, that you can be good clinically. Shadow and get onto the NS service as much as you can. Show up to cases even on your days off. Take extra call on the weekends on easier rotations. Get to know senior faculty in the department. If the rest of your application is solid, you have a good shot.
Oh wow. So first you call yourself a "co-resident" and then you say you are a PD? And then you talk about "honesty"? Wow you can't make this up.
Now I was interested in neuroscience in college (personal family reasons), and that interest led to research, and then an interest into clinical neurology, and then in medical school--developed into an interest in neurosurgery. Throughout the time, I have showed family medicine docs, neurologists and neurosurgeons. I have done research in cell bio labs with great PhD's who have all given me top letters.
Hence, my acceptance and success in a top medical school.
So where are the "red flags"??? See any "red flags"?? Well, the surgeons and scientists I have done research with don't see any "red flags" and I am slated to interview at top programs.
Sorry buddy, but folks like myself come first. we put in the work, we got the grades, we attended the conferences, we got the connections. We contributed to the field--through our lab research, through our retrospective studies, through our case studies.
I don't know about you, but I don't see any "red flags" in being dedicated. If you just want to sneek on in, steal a spot from a top calaber guy... good luck because you will need it. It doesn't work that way, friend. You can't just wake up, decide you want prestige and money, and go into NS.
I'm from a top school with NS/neusorsicence publications in highly cited journals. We don't need loafers who just want to steal spots from top candidates. Sorry, no druggies, no pimps and no "late bloomers".
Neurosurgeon PD
Unregistered
Sorry OP but neurosurgery is not a dumping ground for anyone who can't get into another other specialty; we are not family medicine or peds or OB. If you want to have a chance you will have to put in a few years of work. A PhD doesn't mean anything unless its in a real subject like math, biomedical engineering, mol biology, or some other hard science. And even then, if only from a well-respected program.
A PhD in obese women dysphoria from Howard University doesn't cut it, sorry.
OP seems like the guy who feels entitled to get what he wants, when he wants. No concern for the guys who put in the work.
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