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Diversity
#31
(08-19-2021, 08:26 PM)Guest Wrote: So funny how folks become keyboard warriors when anonymity is keeping them safe. This is coming from an actual resident and guess what yte tears MCAT and step are all pieces of a game that was created for you and by you. Congrats at winning at a rigged game! But I have an even deeper secret for you. Yeah those brown people and those women you are talking about right now. They have more grit and steeled reserve to get past the adversity/challenge that is neurosurgery. So hide behind your board scores. It means nothing when it comes to having what it takes to make the right decision when it’s needed or how to move forward when all you see is the worst part of life.. Sorry no one told you. You silver spooned snot nosed stuck up…they are coming for you and they will lap you in the Or. You’re a dying breed. Thank God folks like you can only exist in the recesses of a barely used forum. Enjoy.

I love the implication behind the MCAT and STEP scores being created "for ytes by ytes". They are both literally intelligence and knowledge tests. So what you're saying is URMs are less adept at learning medicine and less intelligent. If anything that is the most offensive statement on this god forsaken thread.
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#32
(08-20-2021, 10:18 AM)Guest Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 08:26 PM)Guest Wrote: So funny how folks become keyboard warriors when anonymity is keeping them safe. This is coming from an actual resident and guess what yte tears MCAT and step are all pieces of a game that was created for you and by you. Congrats at winning at a rigged game! But I have an even deeper secret for you. Yeah those brown people and those women you are talking about right now. They have more grit and steeled reserve to get past the adversity/challenge that is neurosurgery. So hide behind your board scores. It means nothing when it comes to having what it takes to make the right decision when it’s needed or how to move forward when all you see is the worst part of life.. Sorry no one told you. You silver spooned snot nosed stuck up…they are coming for you and they will lap you in the Or. You’re a dying breed. Thank God folks like you can only exist in the recesses of a barely used forum. Enjoy.

I love the implication behind the MCAT and STEP scores being created "for ytes by ytes". They are both literally intelligence and knowledge tests. So what you're saying is URMs are less adept at learning medicine and less intelligent. If anything that is the most offensive statement on this god forsaken thread.

If you can't understand the statistical implications of cultural bias you have no place in a scientific field.
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#33
Serious question. Can't you just lie about race? I've seen white applicants call themselves Hispanic, and South Asian applicants list themselves as Black. This is for medical school. But does residency work the same way? 

What do PDs do? As I understand, it is purely self-identification, so from a legal perspective, a PD can't do anything. 

Thank you.
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#34
Handholding is over when residency ends and your aptitude being much lower than your peers makes it difficult to attract referrals and conduct meaningful research to land an academic job. Eventually this catches up.
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#35
Yup. Neurosurgery is on track for self destruction. What’s going to happen is reduced reimbursement and surgeries that are reimbursed today will no long be reimbursed. Change is coming.
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#36
(08-22-2021, 06:37 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgeon Wrote: Serious question. Can't you just lie about race? I've seen white applicants call themselves Hispanic, and South Asian applicants list themselves as Black. This is for medical school. But does residency work the same way? 

What do PDs do? As I understand, it is purely self-identification, so from a legal perspective, a PD can't do anything. 

Thank you.

You can lie about race, but there's no quota based on self-reportation in neurosurgery. If you write african american and your heritage is white South African, not going to help you. Your race will be judged in person.
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#37
(08-23-2021, 05:58 PM)Focus Wrote:
(08-22-2021, 06:37 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgeon Wrote: Serious question. Can't you just lie about race? I've seen white applicants call themselves Hispanic, and South Asian applicants list themselves as Black. This is for medical school. But does residency work the same way? 

What do PDs do? As I understand, it is purely self-identification, so from a legal perspective, a PD can't do anything. 

Thank you.

You can lie about race, but there's no quota based on self-reportation in neurosurgery. If you write african american and your heritage is white South African, not going to help you. Your race will be judged in person.


Thanks for this reply, and for not deleting this thread. While what you say may be technically true, it seems like many researchers are paying attention to the race of applicants. 

For example:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33684577/

https://thejns.org/focus/view/journals/n...le-pE6.xml

So I suspect that PD's would want to increase number of blacks/Hispanics/Females if only to look good on paper. I know that is the case for medical school and college admissions. So wouldn't lying be beneficial, if only so that the PD can put "black" on some survey? 

Thank you again.
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#38
(08-23-2021, 06:46 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgery Wrote:
(08-23-2021, 05:58 PM)Focus Wrote:
(08-22-2021, 06:37 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgeon Wrote: Serious question. Can't you just lie about race? I've seen white applicants call themselves Hispanic, and South Asian applicants list themselves as Black. This is for medical school. But does residency work the same way? 

What do PDs do? As I understand, it is purely self-identification, so from a legal perspective, a PD can't do anything. 

Thank you.

You can lie about race, but there's no quota based on self-reportation in neurosurgery. If you write african american and your heritage is white South African, not going to help you. Your race will be judged in person.


Thanks for this reply, and for not deleting this thread. While what you say may be technically true, it seems like many researchers are paying attention to the race of applicants. 

For example:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33684577/

https://thejns.org/focus/view/journals/n...le-pE6.xml

So I suspect that PD's would want to increase number of blacks/Hispanics/Females if only to look good on paper. I know that is the case for medical school and college admissions. So wouldn't lying be beneficial, if only so that the PD can put "black" on some survey? 

Thank you again.
Nah. Your pictures are on the webpage and your faces are at the interview day. If a truly under-represented person looks up some program and its a bunch of people that don't reflect their background, not going to convince. There are so many more important factors than what someone puts on ERAS as their ethnicity. For example, someone who does that unethically to try to get a boost may not be the personality type you are searching for.
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#39
I remember when we wanted a girl going into the match and we matched a girl.

Felt bad for the 40 or so “chaps” that we interviewed that never had a chance.
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#40
(08-24-2021, 07:30 PM)Focus Wrote:
(08-23-2021, 06:46 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgery Wrote:
(08-23-2021, 05:58 PM)Focus Wrote:
(08-22-2021, 06:37 PM)Harvard / Yale Neurosurgeon Wrote: Serious question. Can't you just lie about race? I've seen white applicants call themselves Hispanic, and South Asian applicants list themselves as Black. This is for medical school. But does residency work the same way? 

What do PDs do? As I understand, it is purely self-identification, so from a legal perspective, a PD can't do anything. 

Thank you.

You can lie about race, but there's no quota based on self-reportation in neurosurgery. If you write african american and your heritage is white South African, not going to help you. Your race will be judged in person.


Thanks for this reply, and for not deleting this thread. While what you say may be technically true, it seems like many researchers are paying attention to the race of applicants. 

For example:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33684577/

https://thejns.org/focus/view/journals/n...le-pE6.xml

So I suspect that PD's would want to increase number of blacks/Hispanics/Females if only to look good on paper. I know that is the case for medical school and college admissions. So wouldn't lying be beneficial, if only so that the PD can put "black" on some survey? 

Thank you again.
Nah. Your pictures are on the webpage and your faces are at the interview day. If a truly under-represented person looks up some program and its a bunch of people that don't reflect their background, not going to convince. There are so many more important factors than what someone puts on ERAS as their ethnicity. For example, someone who does that unethically to try to get a boost may not be the personality type you are searching for.

But often you cannot tell. for example, our VP right now looks like an Indian, imo. But she is considered Black when applying for law school/jobs, etc. So what if that is the case? For example I know a number of South Asians with American names (first/last) who look black, and who list themselves as AA or part AA. I know it helps for med school admissions but I am not really familiar with residency. 

Also, you cannot ask race/ethnic related questions so its really hard to prove incorrect.
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