Neurosurgeons leaving practice

[Guest]

(09-17-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote: why the fuck u waste a residency and med school position then. go to another field/job if u want to quit in 3 years

Pretty shallow med student attitude here.

A neurosurgery resident takes care of thousands of people. The average chief graduates with ~1500 cases, plus however many consults and non-op patients get handled as a junior resident. A lot more than some primary care docs do in a lifetime. Who cares when you retire.

[Guest]

(09-16-2021, 09:02 PM)Guest Wrote: Just curious what the impetus seems to be. For example, one of the stanford alumni (Achrol) practiced for about 6 years and is now CMO at some MRI focused ultrasound company.

CMO of Insightec, guy’s set for life.

[Guest]

You do not have to hang around neurosurgery for too long to discover that there are a lot of dysfunctional people with dysfunctional lives in neurosurgery. Not everyone but a lot of them.

[Focus]

(09-17-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote: why the fuck u waste a residency and med school position then. go to another field/job if u want to quit in 3 years

How many other fields can you plot a course where after practicing for 10ish years you are financially solvent enough to retire from full time work if you want? People's priorities change. Pay off your loans and your house and suddenly you can find yourself with a lot of expendable income that maybe doesn't seem as important when you're missing your children growing up. To each their own, attrition keeps our salaries high.

[Guest]

(09-17-2021, 11:05 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 05:40 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 05:30 PM)Guest Wrote: Curious as to what's led lot of these surgeons to leave practice and do something else.

One of the vandy faculty and her husband both retired in their early 40s.  Burnout, loss of job satisfaction, career trajectory and wanting more family time are common factors

This. Live your best life. it’s not all about neurosurgery.

Which Vandy faculty left? Don't recall.

[Guest]

(09-18-2021, 11:07 AM)Focus Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote: why the fuck u waste a residency and med school position then. go to another field/job if u want to quit in 3 years

How many other fields can you plot a course where after practicing for 10ish years you are financially solvent enough to retire from full time work if you want? People's priorities change. Pay off your loans and your house and suddenly you can find yourself with a lot of expendable income that maybe doesn't seem as important when you're missing your children growing up. To each their own, attrition keeps our salaries high.

i was referring to the fact that you are wasting a residency position that might be better used by a more interested canidate. so good people are being turned down while loafers who just want a title and 5 years of salary are getting spots, only to increase female diversity. 

i don't know about you but that doesn't sit quite right with me, that good candidates are being turned down while females who are going to quit are getting the positions.

[Guest]

(09-18-2021, 01:40 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 11:05 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 05:40 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 05:30 PM)Guest Wrote: Curious as to what's led lot of these surgeons to leave practice and do something else.

One of the vandy faculty and her husband both retired in their early 40s.  Burnout, loss of job satisfaction, career trajectory and wanting more family time are common factors

This. Live your best life. it’s not all about neurosurgery.

Which Vandy faculty left? Don't recall.

Hong Yu

[Guest]

(09-18-2021, 08:44 PM)Guest Wrote:

(09-18-2021, 11:07 AM)Focus Wrote:

(09-17-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote: why the fuck u waste a residency and med school position then. go to another field/job if u want to quit in 3 years

How many other fields can you plot a course where after practicing for 10ish years you are financially solvent enough to retire from full time work if you want? People's priorities change. Pay off your loans and your house and suddenly you can find yourself with a lot of expendable income that maybe doesn't seem as important when you're missing your children growing up. To each their own, attrition keeps our salaries high.

i was referring to the fact that you are wasting a residency position that might be better used by a more interested canidate. so good people are being turned down while loafers who just want a title and 5 years of salary are getting spots, only to increase female diversity. 

i don't know about you but that doesn't sit quite right with me, that good candidates are being turned down while females who are going to quit are getting the positions.

Women are not taking “the good candidates” spot- they ARE good candidates. You sound like a scorned man who is mediocre in every aspect and bitter that he wasn’t handed a golden ticket to a top program. Get over yourself.

[Guest]

i think its only natural that neurosurgery attract those individuals who desire to spend a good part of their lives advancing the field and serving patients. it seems odd to me that so many here feel that cashing in and leaving is the correct thing to do. call me crazy but i believe that the best way to serve patients is by serving them and advancing the field--not traveling the world.

but as i mentioned, i might be in the wrong.

[Guest]

(09-19-2021, 03:05 AM)Guest Wrote: i think its only natural that neurosurgery attract those individuals who desire to spend a good part of their lives advancing the field and serving patients. it seems odd to me that so many here feel that cashing in and leaving is the correct thing to do. call me crazy but i believe that the best way to serve patients is by serving them and advancing the field--not traveling the world.

but as i mentioned, i might be in the wrong.

I agree, I want colleagues who love their work. 

But consider this, most medical students don’t really know what the neurosurgery life is until they do it. Sub Is are the only way to get real exposure but even then, they’re a month long and things can seem rosy. With the bombardment of social media and exposure you might assume you can dissect and clip a PICA aneurysm, resect an planum meningioma, perform an MVD and get home by 5. The realness of neurosurgery, the elderly with SDH that need a life-death decision, dealing with entitled patients, navigating a nurses-know-more world, getting insurance authorizations for your patients, the political hierarchy etc is never tweeted. Neurosurgery is an incredible field, you can treat so many diseases in so many practice environments. But for some people, residency is their real exposure to neurosurgery and they don’t see what was sold to them. Some will always leave. 

I wouldn’t want people who no longer want to treat our patients being in the position to make those critical decisions.

To above poster, is there any evidence that attrition is higher in women?

---

(09-19-2021, 07:43 AM)Guest Wrote:

(09-19-2021, 03:05 AM)Guest Wrote: i think its only natural that neurosurgery attract those individuals who desire to spend a good part of their lives advancing the field and serving patients. it seems odd to me that so many here feel that cashing in and leaving is the correct thing to do. call me crazy but i believe that the best way to serve patients is by serving them and advancing the field--not traveling the world.

but as i mentioned, i might be in the wrong.

I agree, I want colleagues who love their work. 

But consider this, most medical students don’t really know what the neurosurgery life is until they do it. Sub Is are the only way to get real exposure but even then, they’re a month long and things can seem rosy. With the bombardment of social media and exposure you might assume you can dissect and clip a PICA aneurysm, resect an planum meningioma, perform an MVD and get home by 5. The realness of neurosurgery, the elderly with SDH that need a life-death decision, dealing with entitled patients, navigating a nurses-know-more world, getting insurance authorizations for your patients, the political hierarchy etc is never tweeted. Neurosurgery is an incredible field, you can treat so many diseases in so many practice environments. But for some people, residency is their real exposure to neurosurgery and they don’t see what was sold to them. Some will always leave. 

I wouldn’t want people who no longer want to treat our patients being in the position to make those critical decisions.

To above poster, is there any evidence that attrition is higher in women?

Edit, found a study: https://thejns.org/view/journals/j-neuro...e-p834.xml