(09-26-2021, 06:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Why don't Stanford and Clevaland the other top places hire more mid-levels to do the work? what is the point of overworking residents?
I like Mayos way which miminizes unnessary work, keeping residents fresh and alert for better patient care and quality research
Just different philosophies. Things may change in the years to come, but it’s definitely not something you can bank on when ranking programs, because change happens very slowly.
(09-26-2021, 06:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Why don't Stanford and Clevaland the other top places hire more mid-levels to do the work? what is the point of overworking residents?
I like Mayos way which miminizes unnessary work, keeping residents fresh and alert for better patient care and quality research
PAs are expensive, it’s not a great job for them, and it’s risky to have them seeing consults and managing the floors all the time. It’s also very valuable for residents to do those things and actually learn the medicine of neurosurgery. If you operate and do research all day, you don’t actually learn everything you need to learn. The key is finding a program that strikes a balance between PA coverage and resident experience. I’m sure you’d love to go somewhere that had other ppl do all your work for you, but then you’d never learn anything
(09-26-2021, 08:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (09-26-2021, 06:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Why don't Stanford and Clevaland the other top places hire more mid-levels to do the work? what is the point of overworking residents?
I like Mayos way which miminizes unnessary work, keeping residents fresh and alert for better patient care and quality research
PAs are expensive, it’s not a great job for them, and it’s risky to have them seeing consults and managing the floors all the time. It’s also very valuable for residents to do those things and actually learn the medicine of neurosurgery. If you operate and do research all day, you don’t actually learn everything you need to learn. The key is finding a program that strikes a balance between PA coverage and resident experience. I’m sure you’d love to go somewhere that had other ppl do all your work for you, but then you’d never learn anything
STFU
(09-26-2021, 08:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (09-26-2021, 06:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Why don't Stanford and Clevaland the other top places hire more mid-levels to do the work? what is the point of overworking residents?
I like Mayos way which miminizes unnessary work, keeping residents fresh and alert for better patient care and quality research
PAs are expensive, it’s not a great job for them, and it’s risky to have them seeing consults and managing the floors all the time. It’s also very valuable for residents to do those things and actually learn the medicine of neurosurgery. If you operate and do research all day, you don’t actually learn everything you need to learn. The key is finding a program that strikes a balance between PA coverage and resident experience. I’m sure you’d love to go somewhere that had other ppl do all your work for you, but then you’d never learn anything
I didn't say that you Fucker.
I said I don't see the point in overworking residents. I understand seeing consults and managing the floor but I don't see the point in not using support staff to reduce the unnecessary work burden.
As far as I can tell, Mayo and BNI surgeons are getting great training without being overworked.
In my view, the best way to learn is to be alert and refreshed. I'd like the opportunity to continue my neuro-related research.
Also, the expense thing doesn't really fly when you talk about Cleveland or Stanford. As far as I can tell, they are overworking residents for no good reason.
(09-27-2021, 12:38 AM)Guest Wrote: (09-26-2021, 08:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (09-26-2021, 06:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Why don't Stanford and Clevaland the other top places hire more mid-levels to do the work? what is the point of overworking residents?
I like Mayos way which miminizes unnessary work, keeping residents fresh and alert for better patient care and quality research
PAs are expensive, it’s not a great job for them, and it’s risky to have them seeing consults and managing the floors all the time. It’s also very valuable for residents to do those things and actually learn the medicine of neurosurgery. If you operate and do research all day, you don’t actually learn everything you need to learn. The key is finding a program that strikes a balance between PA coverage and resident experience. I’m sure you’d love to go somewhere that had other ppl do all your work for you, but then you’d never learn anything
I didn't say that you Fucker.
I said I don't see the point in overworking residents. I understand seeing consults and managing the floor but I don't see the point in not using support staff to reduce the unnecessary work burden.
As far as I can tell, Mayo and BNI surgeons are getting great training without being overworked.
In my view, the best way to learn is to be alert and refreshed. I'd like the opportunity to continue my neuro-related research.
Also, the expense thing doesn't really fly when you talk about Cleveland or Stanford. As far as I can tell, they are overworking residents for no good reason.
Mid-level resident here. I thought your question was fine until this response. I’m sure we’d all love a Goldilocks residency, but that’s not realistic. How many thousands do you think have come before you, without all the protections and ancillary support we enjoy today? And guess what? Those are the giants on whose shoulders we stand.
You come off as petulant and spoiled. If you bring that shit into a residency program, where you can’t hide behind the veil of anonymity, you won’t last long. Just my two cents.
nothing wrong with wanting to provide best patient care. Nothing entitled about it
research has shown that well-rested residents provide the best care. just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it is the best. for example, slavery and segregation -- both produced great presidents and scholars but that doesn't mean they were the best thing to do.
1) You’re speaking as an outsider with no practical understanding of what is or isn’t good patient care
2) Classic strawman. Relating any discussion back to atrocities of human history.
3) This is just advice. You’re obviously free not to take it to heart. Good luck with residency.
As someone from a busy program - there is value in the scut. I understand that to many of you who are MS3 through PGY3ish that seems like a contradiction but it is not. I grant that there are diminishing returns, but if you're not getting something out of it that's on you. It does not take much to tell the difference between people who went to a "cush" residency and people who got beaten up. You see it in patient selection, reaction to non-surgical complications, and understanding of how the hospital functions. Many people can learn to operate but that kind of stuff helps you to avoid or minimize issues that would otherwise lead to bad outcomes. Any person who thinks this is low value or that they are above it is just asking for problems.
Vanderbilt sent one of their senior residents to do survivor. Sounds pretty cush to me
Meaningless scut: having to transport patients and drawing labs yourself.
Somewhat meaningful scut: discharges, clinic, floor pager.
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