10-28-2021, 07:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2021, 06:45 AM by Focus.)
(10-28-2021, 07:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Hi guys, I just learned about this thread. It’s certainly unfair or unequal in some ways that as part of the Mayo system we have access to learn from surgeons at all Mayo hospitals. The Mayo SOM has one accreditation with all 3 campuses as multiple locations of the one school. We complete our third year core clerkship at all 3 locations, too, because they’re all internal to us. Before doing the rotations at the other 2 mayo sites I checked with leadership to be extra sure that this would not be considered ‘away’ rotations. The flip side of that, of course, is that any letter from any of those 3 sites would be considered a ‘home’ LOR for me, so I still only had access to one away for LOR or application purposes. Prior to SubI’s I also did multiple ‘selective’ weeks (during M1 and M2) in Rochester, Arizona, and Florida as well, so I already knew and was known by the people at all Mayo sites. It was a great learning experience but I don’t think gave me any advantage other than extra weeks spent on service, which anyone can have as long as your home institution lets you rotate for more than 4 weeks.
Anyone can do 3 home sub internships if this is allowed by your school.. If your school is associated with multiple hospitals, you can rotate at each and have it still be a home subi. Other Mayo students did the same thing this year as well, both in neurosurgery and other specialties. I also know nsg applicants at other schools who did multiple rotations at home affiliates - this is considered ok this year, too.
Maybe I should take the tweet down - it never occurred to me that anyone could get mad about me doing multiple mayo rotations as a mayo student.. but I only posted it to thank the hosting surgeons/staff and give a shoutout to the awesome co-subi’s I rotated with. I apologize if it came across wrong. Good luck to everyone and hope to meet you all on the trail!
I don’t think anyone is concerned about whether it’s officially internal or not. I think we all understand that part. The bigger picture is that it is traveling across 3 different states in a pandemic where supposedly we aren’t even allowed to Interview in person for a 2 day stint but can spend months traveling cross country. The loophole is a point of inequity. This is not about you utilizing the system available to you, but about the system that allows it.
I’ll also add that even in the case of individuals without a home institution the AAMC, and the SNS echoed, that the adopted home program needed to be in close proximity to an individuals medical school. FL, AZ, and MN aren’t that, so I don’t think that is a fair comparison.
Again, to me, this isn’t about you specifically but about evaluating how “standardization” when ill-informed or improperly implemented can exacerbate inequity rather than address it. Pre-COVID this would be irrelevant but we were all asked to make sacrifices as a field for the greater good so understandably this will rub people wrong.
I do see the point, and I did travel one more time than other students did, I guess, since I went to both Rochester and Florida. After taking advantage of internal Mayo opportunities (with precautions, immunization, etc) and checking with staff who are in touch with SNS and AAMC about those, I purposefully scheduled my 'away' in my home state, 20 minutes from both my house and Mayo AZ campus to avoid traveling more. In the end probably the worst part was posting about it in my excitement about being done and my desire to thank everyone involved. I can see now that this could seem like boasting or flouting the rules, when that was never remotely part of my intention. Always good to be reminded about being more careful with posting online, especially when you don't go the route of always being anonymous.
So mayo allows and encourages its students to travel the country in the middle of a pandemic in order to increase student chances at top residencies? in many pics this student was not even wearing a mask and was touring the country between her rotations. and when this student was wearing a mask her twitter only shows surgical mask---not N95.
I am very surprised at this. i was always under the impression that mayo prioritized patient care? i suppose not.
Guest
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Again, to me, this isn’t about you specifically but about evaluating how “standardization” when ill-informed or improperly implemented can exacerbate inequity rather than address it. Pre-COVID this would be irrelevant but we were all asked to make sacrifices as a field for the greater good so understandably this will rub people wrong.
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But apart from me being defensive and at the same time feeling bad about my post and my embarrassing naïveté about my own twitter account and how it comes across, I agree that bigger changes should be made moving forward to promote equity. Students interested in neurosurgery will always seek out and take advantage of any and all learning opportunities available to them. Maybe this can help inform policy if rotations are restricted in the future. I think students without home programs should be allowed more 'away' rotations if they want them, as students with established departments are always more advantaged, regardless of the specific number or location(s) of home affiliate hospitals. This is just one of many aspects of inequity in nsg, and I admit that it's unfair that my home institution had more resources available than some do. I'm always looking out for ways to help fellow applicants, so if I can do anything for any of you (answer questions, make connections, etc) don't hesitate to reach out.
(10-28-2021, 08:39 PM)Guest Wrote: So mayo allows and encourages its students to travel the country in the middle of a pandemic in order to increase student chances at top residencies? in many pics this student was not even wearing a mask and was touring the country between her rotations. and when this student was wearing a mask her twitter only shows surgical mask---not N95.
I am very surprised at this. i was always under the impression that mayo prioritized patient care? i suppose not.
I guarantee you I wore a mask except at a beach and in an outdoor courtyard.. and as I had an average of 36 hours between rotations, there was no touring except at the Dallas airport. Good 7-11 slurpees there.
The mistake you made was flaunting your SubI plans on the internet.
People are outraged because you flaunted it in their face and it seems like you cheating the system.
The last thing neurosurgery needs is another Twitter, Facebook, Instagram “Neurosurgery Queen”.
There are probably doing exactly what you are doing but they are discrete enough not to advertise it.
(10-28-2021, 08:56 PM)Guest Wrote: The mistake you made was flaunting your SubI plans on the internet.
People are outraged because you flaunted it in their face and it seems like you cheating the system.
The last thing neurosurgery needs is another Twitter, Facebook, Instagram “Neurosurgery Queen”.
There are probably doing exactly what you are doing but they are discrete enough not to advertise it.
Fair enough. Point taken, lesson learned re:posting. Your neurosurgery queen comment is offensive and inaccurate, but I agree with the rest.
(10-28-2021, 08:42 PM)Guest Wrote: Guest
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Again, to me, this isn’t about you specifically but about evaluating how “standardization” when ill-informed or improperly implemented can exacerbate inequity rather than address it. Pre-COVID this would be irrelevant but we were all asked to make sacrifices as a field for the greater good so understandably this will rub people wrong.
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But apart from me being defensive and at the same time feeling bad about my post and my embarrassing naïveté about my own twitter account and how it comes across, I agree that bigger changes should be made moving forward to promote equity. Students interested in neurosurgery will always seek out and take advantage of any and all learning opportunities available to them. Maybe this can help inform policy if rotations are restricted in the future. I think students without home programs should be allowed more 'away' rotations if they want them, as students with established departments are always more advantaged, regardless of the specific number or location(s) of home affiliate hospitals. This is just one of many aspects of inequity in nsg, and I admit that it's unfair that my home institution had more resources available than some do. I'm always looking out for ways to help fellow applicants, so if I can do anything for any of you (answer questions, make connections, etc) don't hesitate to reach out.
(10-28-2021, 08:39 PM)Guest Wrote: So mayo allows and encourages its students to travel the country in the middle of a pandemic in order to increase student chances at top residencies? in many pics this student was not even wearing a mask and was touring the country between her rotations. and when this student was wearing a mask her twitter only shows surgical mask---not N95.
I am very surprised at this. i was always under the impression that mayo prioritized patient care? i suppose not.
I guarantee you I wore a mask except at a beach and in an outdoor courtyard.. and as I had an average of 36 hours between rotations, there was no touring except at the Dallas airport. Good 7-11 slurpees there.
I’m the first person you responded to. I agree that when we decide to take a very public identity like via Med Twitter you have to be more conscientious of what you are presenting to the world. There will likely be future instances where your social media presence could lead to questions/comments on your judgement and choices.
I would be careful in how you respond even here where you are in one breath owning up to maybe not taking the right approach and being aware of the context but that you had no advantages from it and then quickly following with being happy to help people with “connections”. Just my two cents, take it or leave it.
I also agree that the comment about “Neurosurgery Queen” is condescending and unnecessary… but I’m never surprised at the misogyny on this board.
I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended or hurt in any way by my post about completing the sub-I’s. I typed it out in my car in the BNI parking lot at the end of my last day, in a spirit of being grateful for the opportunities I had and the people I had met. Looking back I can see that it was impulsive and I didn’t stop to think enough. I (apparently mistakenly) tend to think that only the few people who interact with my posts ever even see them, and I feel badly that it didn’t occur to me that this might hurt someone or make them feel badly about their opportunities. I stand by my offer to help any fellow applicant in any way I can - although answering questions or making introductions are probably the only things in my power.
I really really hope I don’t match with such a selfish person or else it will be a long fucking 7 years. I’m sure you’ll fuck over your co-residents to get ahead for fellowships/jobs/grants and whatever else as well.
Im so confused by the offer to help other applicants. I would understand maybe if she was offering to help MS1-3’s considering neurosurgery. But what answers/connections can one applicant provide another mid-cycle lol. Just imagine hitting up Barrow faculty with Intro email to random applicant that contacted her online? Ha
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