What is the story with this guy??

[Guest]

^Smells like UPMC to me

[Guest]

(11-03-2021, 09:31 PM)Guest Wrote: So, I got this thread as a screenshot message from a friend who’s in neurosurgery residency and apparently follows this thread. I applied in NSG in 2019 from a top 15 school at the time with the above metrics. I felt compelled enough to come here and give you some perspective. I'm not going to lie, it was absolutely devastating to not march after all I did. However, as the old age adage says “time heals all.” So, here it is. I absolutely did everything in the book and more during medical school >95% boards, multiple publications, a few in journals with IF >5, grants and research fellowships, awesome clinical grades, and strong LORs from respected faculty from my home programs and away rotations. I was the most solid applicant from my class, and one of the most solid for a few years from a school that matched people into great programs historically. However, that Monday came and I got the dread “Sorry, you did not match” email. My family was torn, I was devastated. I legitimately did everything I could, and at the end of the fourth quarter, I fumbled the football. I asked myself so many question, I revisited this north of 100 x in my mind. I got nothing. I was solid, I thought. However, the time component gave me closure. A few weeks after the match two senior residents from programs I rotated at called me; I thought they wanted to give me their condolences…however, what they both said, independent of each other, is that a prominent faculty from my home program called their programs and essentially told them I was the devil in a short white coat. My home program sabotaged me. This was not the first time this happened, my home program had a failed coup to sabotage an upperclassmen of mine just the year prior. This was not a secret what happened to my upperclassman, everyone knew it including the Dean, but the medical school did not do anything but a slap in the hand of the said faculty. Come to find out from underclassmen of mine that as recebt as late last year, said faculty member still talked shit about me. I decided not to do anything, as I knew nothing was going to come of it. I won’t lie, I thought about smashing this dude’s face with a baseball bat soo many times. He took food away from my kids mouth. With that said, I got my closure.
Now, I am not the traditional medical student as far as personality. I have a strong personality, I asked questions, I was vocal into getting opportunities to help during rotation, I opened cases as a Sub-I before the intern, I put in a shunt, I dropped a EVD, etc…I’m sure that rubbed people off the wrong way. I am not apologizing for that.
Yet, I believe my biggest mistake was showing my cards. I showed my mentor my list, and my home program was not on top of that list. It didn’t make the top 10. I gave him a bullshit reason and said that I wanted to live in a big city, by the beach, etc. But the real reason was that most the residents in my home program were weak in knowledge and surgical skills. The amount of shit I saw them do was scary. Also, the ass kissing culture and culture of publishing garbage in high quantity was not what I wanted to do with my life.
So, there it is. I fucked up, they fucked up, the system is fucked up, and metrics won’t save you. Politics runs this shit; academic medicine I mean. These dickwads run in flocks. You should see their belligerent  behavior in meetings and their superficiality exudes through their pores. But the field is also filled with great people who bust their ass in the hope of making meaningful change in their patients lives. So, there it is. Thats the story. Now, go crazy…

Faculty lurking:

Bolded above are the key statements. You may not apologize for this, and better yet you may think you are entitled to act this way in the name of "patient care", but this is the kind of stuff that gets you a bad reputation. And as you've learned, all it takes is really rubbing one person the wrong way to get you off track.

Your only jobs as a med student are to be enthusiastic, curious, and friendly. You didn't have to "show your cards", as you call it, bad-mouthing the residents at your own program. That's not political, it's just poor adulting. You really think your future co-workers or patients are going to stomach that kind of thing in the real world? Good luck developing a referral base.

The point is, we read hundreds of "best med student letter ever" letters a year. If we get a single bad one or, even worse, a phone call, you can bit we sit up and pay attention. We just don't have much else to go by. And whether or not it was executed fairly, the fact that it happened at ALL is a big red flag. I would rather read 2 bland letters and one stellar one, than 2 stellar letters and 1 negative one.

Last thing - you're right, there may be plenty of us academic attendings guilty of the pandering of which you speak. But that is much better than the alternative. Time has trained us well to identify personality traits that lead to pathologic surgeons, and (at least at my program and those with which I'm familiar) we are aggressive about weeding them out.

Hope you found something that fulfills you, if it's not NSGY. That's what this is all about, after all.

[Guest]

(11-03-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 09:31 PM)Guest Wrote: So, I got this thread as a screenshot message from a friend who’s in neurosurgery residency and apparently follows this thread. I applied in NSG in 2019 from a top 15 school at the time with the above metrics. I felt compelled enough to come here and give you some perspective. I'm not going to lie, it was absolutely devastating to not march after all I did. However, as the old age adage says “time heals all.” So, here it is. I absolutely did everything in the book and more during medical school >95% boards, multiple publications, a few in journals with IF >5, grants and research fellowships, awesome clinical grades, and strong LORs from respected faculty from my home programs and away rotations. I was the most solid applicant from my class, and one of the most solid for a few years from a school that matched people into great programs historically. However, that Monday came and I got the dread “Sorry, you did not match” email. My family was torn, I was devastated. I legitimately did everything I could, and at the end of the fourth quarter, I fumbled the football. I asked myself so many question, I revisited this north of 100 x in my mind. I got nothing. I was solid, I thought. However, the time component gave me closure. A few weeks after the match two senior residents from programs I rotated at called me; I thought they wanted to give me their condolences…however, what they both said, independent of each other, is that a prominent faculty from my home program called their programs and essentially told them I was the devil in a short white coat. My home program sabotaged me. This was not the first time this happened, my home program had a failed coup to sabotage an upperclassmen of mine just the year prior. This was not a secret what happened to my upperclassman, everyone knew it including the Dean, but the medical school did not do anything but a slap in the hand of the said faculty. Come to find out from underclassmen of mine that as recebt as late last year, said faculty member still talked shit about me. I decided not to do anything, as I knew nothing was going to come of it. I won’t lie, I thought about smashing this dude’s face with a baseball bat soo many times. He took food away from my kids mouth. With that said, I got my closure.
Now, I am not the traditional medical student as far as personality. I have a strong personality, I asked questions, I was vocal into getting opportunities to help during rotation, I opened cases as a Sub-I before the intern, I put in a shunt, I dropped a EVD, etc…I’m sure that rubbed people off the wrong way. I am not apologizing for that.
Yet, I believe my biggest mistake was showing my cards. I showed my mentor my list, and my home program was not on top of that list. It didn’t make the top 10. I gave him a bullshit reason and said that I wanted to live in a big city, by the beach, etc. But the real reason was that most the residents in my home program were weak in knowledge and surgical skills. The amount of shit I saw them do was scary. Also, the ass kissing culture and culture of publishing garbage in high quantity was not what I wanted to do with my life.
So, there it is. I fucked up, they fucked up, the system is fucked up, and metrics won’t save you. Politics runs this shit; academic medicine I mean. These dickwads run in flocks. You should see their belligerent  behavior in meetings and their superficiality exudes through their pores. But the field is also filled with great people who bust their ass in the hope of making meaningful change in their patients lives. So, there it is. Thats the story. Now, go crazy…

Faculty lurking:

Bolded above are the key statements. You may not apologize for this, and better yet you may think you are entitled to act this way in the name of "patient care", but this is the kind of stuff that gets you a bad reputation. And as you've learned, all it takes is really rubbing one person the wrong way to get you off track.

Your only jobs as a med student are to be enthusiastic, curious, and friendly. You didn't have to "show your cards", as you call it, bad-mouthing the residents at your own program. That's not political, it's just poor adulting. You really think your future co-workers or patients are going to stomach that kind of thing in the real world? Good luck developing a referral base.

The point is, we read hundreds of "best med student letter ever" letters a year. If we get a single bad one or, even worse, a phone call, you can bit we sit up and pay attention. We just don't have much else to go by. And whether or not it was executed fairly, the fact that it happened at ALL is a big red flag. I would rather read 2 bland letters and one stellar one, than 2 stellar letters and 1 negative one.

Last thing - you're right, there may be plenty of us academic attendings guilty of the pandering of which you speak. But that is much better than the alternative. Time has trained us well to identify personality traits that lead to pathologic surgeons, and (at least at my program and those with which I'm familiar) we are aggressive about weeding them out.

Hope you found something that fulfills you, if it's not NSGY. That's what this is all about, after all.

That’s great, but students are still people and if you have an issue with them then sit down and tell it to them and encourage them to apply to something else. Backstabbing shit leads to far more misery for everyone involved. Treat them like you would a patient; give them realistic information without sugar coating so that they can make their own decisions.

[Guest]

(11-04-2021, 12:00 AM)Guest Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:37 PM)Guest Wrote: &c.

That’s great, but students are still people and if you have an issue with them then sit down and tell it to them and encourage them to apply to something else. Backstabbing shit leads to far more misery for everyone involved. Treat them like you would a patient; give them realistic information without sugar coating so that they can make their own decisions.

No dude, it's not our job to fix your personality. You should have mentors and school advisors and, like, family and friends for that. Or even just some basic self-awareness and insight. It's our job to protect the profession of neurosurgery. Sounds like that's exactly what those faculty did.

[Guest]

Reading dudes long diatribe I am not surprised her didn’t match. I say this every time. These people that think they’re god’s gift to the field are the worst. Lmao at an MS4 disgusted with the knowledge and surgical skills of the residents. Good luck dude

[Guest]

Affability carries more weight these days than skill. Those that are affable will get pushed along even with little skill. I’ve seen it over and over.

Harvey Cushing would not make the cut in this day and age either.

Neurosurgery is slowly dying.

[Guest]

(11-03-2021, 10:25 PM)Guest Wrote: ^Smells like UPMC to me

They only thing about that story that sounds like UPMC is sub i's getting to do an evd. 

As an aside, I had a student tell me that he only got to do a single burr hole on two sub-is. Y'all need to let those kids do more WTF.

[Guest]

What are you talking about dude. Residents can barely do a burr hole these days!

[Guest]

Availability, ability, affability. To survive, pick 2. To thrive, all 3 - or find a way to be the undisputed best. Note that "ability" is not really on the table for a sub-i.

[Fucked up]

(11-03-2021, 09:29 PM)Focus Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 07:55 PM)Guest Wrote: This is what happens when you attend a low ranking medical school. your life is destroyed.

Seriously, I think you should talk to someone in real life about what's eating you.

Well I can't understand to this day why my other biological father would seek to ruin my career in many instances. This fact is eating me. It is completely against the laws of nature. 
Going back to the gentleman who is the subject of this thread, I feel sad for him. If medicine were like Silicon Valley or Wall Street he would succeed. Those industries encourage blunt language and critical thinking. Maybe that's why US medical care is last in the world amongst industrialized nations, because incompetent people who are friendly are the ones who get promoted. 
I've learned the hard way--fortunately, prior to med school--that being nice and submissive and worshiping your mentor will get you a lot. Worship your mentors and never question them--even when they are clearly wrong--is how you do it. 

Never fight. Never argue. Never question. Only worship.