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Operative vs more traditional academic programs for future academic positions
#21
(02-05-2022, 11:13 AM)Guest Wrote: Did a subi there previously, and UCSF/Pitt

BWH — Double scrubbing, residents in open vascular cases kicked out once dura open, PGY3 struggled to close a spine

At UCSF/Pitt they were doing everything by themselves by PGY5

Not even close. Unfortunately the contrast is something that can’t be appreciated with one to no subi’s

Why is double scrubbing bad? We do it, it’s just the chief and a junior doing literally the entire case together. The attending stops by to give tips but if any attending sees two residents in a case they usually back off. Seems like a good set up but is generally maligned by med students. It also got me on cases where I otherwise wouldn’t see till I was a senior
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#22
While discussing double scrubbing, we focus on the junior trainee's experience, which is impacted by case type/complexity, junior-senior training level gap, and senior trainee's/attending's personalities.

Posterior spine > cranial, anterior/lateral or tubular spine because you can have 2 people working simultaneously and more working space. If junior/senior are too close in training years (less than 2 years), the desired performed portions of the case conflict. As a junior, some of the best operative experiences may be while double scrubbed with hands-off senior and attending (usually basic trauma or at VAs). However, most attending still participate in the critical portion of the case; we all know the 3rd scrub becomes limited to suction/retraction.

Overall, the double scrubbing experience for junior residents varies but is generally inferior to single scrubbing unless the above criteria are met.
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#23
(02-10-2022, 03:07 PM)Guest Wrote: While discussing double scrubbing, we focus on the junior trainee's experience, which is impacted by case type/complexity, junior-senior training level gap, and senior trainee's/attending's personalities.

Posterior spine > cranial, anterior/lateral or tubular spine because you can have 2 people working simultaneously and more working space. If junior/senior are too close in training years (less than 2 years), the desired performed portions of the case conflict. As a junior, some of the best operative experiences may be while double scrubbed with hands-off senior and attending (usually basic trauma or at VAs). However, most attending still participate in the critical portion of the case; we all know the 3rd scrub becomes limited to suction/retraction.

Overall, the double scrubbing experience for junior residents varies but is generally inferior to single scrubbing unless the above criteria are met.

Great insight, thank you
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#24
Agree with above. Sure you might find an attending who will let a PGY2 fumble through a tumor. What is more likely going to happen is you will help with the craniotomy and closure, that's it. Programs where the chief is paired with the junior is a case offers some advantages, granted the culture is right. If the chief is letting the junior do a lot it means the chief is comfortable with the case and is learning how to be a future attending. The junior may also get to do more with someone they're more comfortable struggling in front of. In my experience, "double scrubbing" is fine as long as the attending is fairly hands off. If the attending is hands on and/or has a fellow, then yes double scrubbing is not ideal.

There are programs where 3-5 residents are in a single case, because those cases are not done very often at those hospitals. Steer clear.
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#25
With rank lists almost due, does anyone else have insights on less discussed programs?
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#26
doesnt matter at all. neurosurgery is pseudo academic with politics taking precedence over real research. just look at the journals and AANS CNS to see that.
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#27
(03-11-2022, 02:12 PM)Guest Wrote: doesnt matter at all. neurosurgery is pseudo academic with politics taking precedence over real research. just look at the journals and AANS CNS to see that.

What do you mean by this? Can you go into more detail? Thank you
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#28
(03-12-2022, 02:05 AM)Guest Wrote:
(03-11-2022, 02:12 PM)Guest Wrote: doesnt matter at all. neurosurgery is pseudo academic with politics taking precedence over real research. just look at the journals and AANS CNS to see that.

What do you mean by this? Can you go into more detail? Thank you

A lot of people that are perceived as “big names” are nothing more than twitter warriors. They spend more time in committee meetings than actually operating or conducting research.
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#29
(03-13-2022, 08:30 AM)Guest Wrote:
(03-12-2022, 02:05 AM)Guest Wrote:
(03-11-2022, 02:12 PM)Guest Wrote: doesnt matter at all. neurosurgery is pseudo academic with politics taking precedence over real research. just look at the journals and AANS CNS to see that.

What do you mean by this? Can you go into more detail? Thank you

A lot of people that are perceived as “big names” are nothing more than twitter warriors. They spend more time in committee meetings than actually operating or conducting research.

Which ones come to mind?
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#30
Newsflash: Perception is reality. Whether you like it or not, perception is more important than almost any other metric. Fair? Maybe not, but nothing really is. Sorry to burst your bubble, but life doesn’t care about objective data or facts for the most part. The sooner you learn this the better off you’ll be.
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