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In search of a PGY2 position
#11
Why not fix the problem and remove the resident that is causing the trouble in the first place? Seems to me to be a lot more time-consuming and inefficient for NYU to have to fill multiple vacant PGY-2 positions than keep a single resident no matter his/her skill level.
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#12
Who is the resident that is being unprofessional?
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#13
(02-14-2018, 01:55 PM)Seeking PGY2 Position Wrote:
(02-14-2018, 01:47 AM)Guest Wrote: I sympathize with your situation, but in all honesty it's going to be difficult to convince any PD to take you on. What is the guarantee that you won't just quit again, especially considering you walked away from a great program like NYU?

I think an interested PD could at least discuss with me the circumstances in which I left and confirm specifics with my previous program director. I think it would be clear from such a discussion that many others may have also chosen to do the same if they had experienced a certain type of abuse, and that would not mean that they would quit again, or that they could not make great neurosurgeons in the future.

I was abused by a specific resident at my previous program and that is the main reason I left. Frankly I did not feel safe. This resident did things as demeaning as making me carry his lunch while he walked next to me because I was "his intern" to those much more serious. He would regularly threaten that he would break me, would curse at me with foul language in front of patients while I was doing procedures (this was witnessed by a senior resident). He would yell at me in the ED seeing consults or while I was wheeling patients to the scanner to the point that residents from other services had to intervene disturbed by his anger, and he would even laugh hysterically during the times I broke down in tears in front him... and many other examples and it was relentless. This resident had threatened other residents in the program as well and had very disturbing characteristics that made him very intimidating and scary. This kind of resident is not normal for most programs, and is usually weeded out in applications to medical school way before even getting into residency...so I do not think that leaving for such a reason again is ever likely, as I expect general safety to be a basic denominator in most programs.

Despite how emotionally disturbing that experience was for me, I regret leaving because no matter what I say, some PDs may just not care. However, that does not mean there is no hope or that no program director will care. Another resident at my former program last year also left at the end of the year - he is now doing well and happy at another neurosurgery program on the west coast. Not continuing at my former program was not a predictor of success elsewhere. 

If a PD is willing to consider that things are not black and white, and that there is still a chance for me to continue my training and hopefully become a great neurosurgeon, please do not hesitate to contact me. I will keep trying on my end too.

Thank you

Sorry to be frank, but cry me a fucking river.  No PD is going to listen to your sob story and feel swayed so much as to give you a job.  It's a hard field, and life is hard.  Suck it up, take your blows, preservere.  For every spot that opens there are easily 100 applications, many of whom have no issues or baggage.  You had your shot, you failed.  Again,  Im sorry if this comes off as tough love, but if you're going to survive, you've got to toughen up.
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#14
(02-14-2018, 03:12 PM)Guest Wrote: Seeking PGY2 Position
(02-14-2018, 01:47 AM)Guest Wrote: I sympathize with your situation, but in all honesty it's going to be difficult to convince any PD to take you on. What is the guarantee that you won't just quit again, especially considering you walked away from a great program like NYU?

I think an interested PD could at least discuss with me the circumstances in which I left and confirm specifics with my previous program director. I think it would be clear from such a discussion that many others may have also chosen to do the same if they had experienced a certain type of abuse, and that would not mean that they would quit again, or that they could not make great neurosurgeons in the future.

I was abused by a specific resident at my previous program and that is the main reason I left. Frankly I did not feel safe. This resident did things as demeaning as making me carry his lunch while he walked next to me because I was "his intern" to those much more serious. He would regularly threaten that he would break me, would curse at me with foul language in front of patients while I was doing procedures (this was witnessed by a senior resident). He would yell at me in the ED seeing consults or while I was wheeling patients to the scanner to the point that residents from other services had to intervene disturbed by his anger, and he would even laugh hysterically during the times I broke down in tears in front him... and many other examples and it was relentless. This resident had threatened other residents in the program as well and had very disturbing characteristics that made him very intimidating and scary. This kind of resident is not normal for most programs, and is usually weeded out in applications to medical school way before even getting into residency...so I do not think that leaving for such a reason again is ever likely, as I expect general safety to be a basic denominator in most programs.

Despite how emotionally disturbing that experience was for me, I regret leaving because no matter what I say, some PDs may just not care. However, that does not mean there is no hope or that no program director will care. Another resident at my former program last year also left at the end of the year - he is now doing well and happy at another neurosurgery program on the west coast. Not continuing at my former program was not a predictor of success elsewhere. 

If a PD is willing to consider that things are not black and white, and that there is still a chance for me to continue my training and hopefully become a great neurosurgeon, please do not hesitate to contact me. I will keep trying on my end too.

Thank you

Sorry to be frank, but cry me a fucking river.  No PD is going to listen to your sob story and feel swayed so much as to give you a job.  It's a hard field, and life is hard.  Suck it up, take your blows, preservere.  For every spot that opens there are easily 100 applications, many of whom have no issues or baggage.  You had your shot, you failed.  Again,  Im sorry if this comes off as tough love, but if you're going to survive, you've got to toughen up.

Thanks for your feedback. Again, I understand it is difficult but I will keep looking for positions and they can make that decision for themselves.
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#15
(02-14-2018, 03:12 PM)Guest Wrote:
(02-14-2018, 01:55 PM)Seeking PGY2 Position Wrote:
(02-14-2018, 01:47 AM)Guest Wrote: I sympathize with your situation, but in all honesty it's going to be difficult to convince any PD to take you on. What is the guarantee that you won't just quit again, especially considering you walked away from a great program like NYU?

I think an interested PD could at least discuss with me the circumstances in which I left and confirm specifics with my previous program director. I think it would be clear from such a discussion that many others may have also chosen to do the same if they had experienced a certain type of abuse, and that would not mean that they would quit again, or that they could not make great neurosurgeons in the future.

I was abused by a specific resident at my previous program and that is the main reason I left. Frankly I did not feel safe. This resident did things as demeaning as making me carry his lunch while he walked next to me because I was "his intern" to those much more serious. He would regularly threaten that he would break me, would curse at me with foul language in front of patients while I was doing procedures (this was witnessed by a senior resident). He would yell at me in the ED seeing consults or while I was wheeling patients to the scanner to the point that residents from other services had to intervene disturbed by his anger, and he would even laugh hysterically during the times I broke down in tears in front him... and many other examples and it was relentless. This resident had threatened other residents in the program as well and had very disturbing characteristics that made him very intimidating and scary. This kind of resident is not normal for most programs, and is usually weeded out in applications to medical school way before even getting into residency...so I do not think that leaving for such a reason again is ever likely, as I expect general safety to be a basic denominator in most programs.

Despite how emotionally disturbing that experience was for me, I regret leaving because no matter what I say, some PDs may just not care. However, that does not mean there is no hope or that no program director will care. Another resident at my former program last year also left at the end of the year - he is now doing well and happy at another neurosurgery program on the west coast. Not continuing at my former program was not a predictor of success elsewhere. 

If a PD is willing to consider that things are not black and white, and that there is still a chance for me to continue my training and hopefully become a great neurosurgeon, please do not hesitate to contact me. I will keep trying on my end too.

Thank you

Sorry to be frank, but cry me a fucking river.  No PD is going to listen to your sob story and feel swayed so much as to give you a job.  It's a hard field, and life is hard.  Suck it up, take your blows, preservere.  For every spot that opens there are easily 100 applications, many of whom have no issues or baggage.  You had your shot, you failed.  Again,  Im sorry if this comes off as tough love, but if you're going to survive, you've got to toughen up.

Agreed. I got fucking destroyed by my senior/chief for 2 years. Dude would shove me against the wall and scream at me on a daily basis and threaten to end my career. Gotta tough it out. No one who trained before 2003 is gonna have any sympathy, especially if you chose to quit. There have been residents who got fired due to program culture/not meshing and have gotten other positions (like the kid who went from Duke to Rush) but I think it's much harder if you leave voluntarily. There are lots of malignant residents everywhere in neurosurgery and you gotta learn to deal with them, especially as a junior.
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#16
Current applicant here... in order to be a neurosurgeon I have to put up with abuse including physical abuse like being shoved up against a wall? Safety wasn’t valued before 2003? I certainly hope it is now - the notion that we should accept what you went through and be ok with unsafe situations is ludicrous.
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#17
(02-14-2018, 03:36 PM)Guest Wrote: Current applicant here... in order to be a neurosurgeon I have to put up with abuse including physical abuse like being shoved up against a wall? Safety wasn’t valued before 2003? I certainly hope it is now - the notion that we should accept what you went through and be ok with unsafe situations is ludicrous.

You're gonna have a long (hopefully) 7 years kid.. It's very program dependent since the culture is determined by the senior residents and chiefs but they can basically do whatever they want with you. In neurosurgery there are very few protections. Residents are fired all the time and there's a 30+% attrition rate in the field. Usually when a junior resident tries to report abuse they're either forced into quitting (like the girl who posted the original message) or fired since the chiefs are much more valuable and know the attendings a lot better and no one wants a junior resident who's constantly ratting on the program. Keep your head down, work very hard, and hopefully it won't happen to you.
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#18
(02-14-2018, 03:36 PM)Guest Wrote: Current applicant here... in order to be a neurosurgeon I have to put up with abuse including physical abuse like being shoved up against a wall? Safety wasn’t valued before 2003? I certainly hope it is now - the notion that we should accept what you went through and be ok with unsafe situations is ludicrous.

Yes.  That is what we are saying.  If you don't want to experience this, find another field.
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#19
It was my understanding that the person who went to UCLA had a conflict with one of the current chiefs who will be finishing residency soon. I didn't realize it was another resident in the program. Regardless, you can't deny that there's some shady stuff going on at NYU. 2 residents out, another who had a research year removed so another resident can take an extra yr, so on and so forth. God bless whoever matches there next month.
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#20
This is absolutely unacceptable. Neurosurgery is a tough field, but the things mentioned above are very atypical and were not common in the 1990s when I trained. These sort of abuses should be reported to the acgme.
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