Affirmative action is now illegal.

[Guest]

where did you work at?

[Guest]

The vast majority of people who are at top medical schools, in neurosurgical training, and in academic neurosurgery are from extremely privileged backgrounds which tend to be overrepresented (Whites and Asians), and may be a product of inherent socioeconomic advantages.

Take a look at neurosurgery chairs, vice-chairs, organizational leadership and look at where they trained/went to school/went to high school (often prep school). I attended a T20 med school and doximity research T10 residency and most people I encountered in both environments were from at least one-physician parent households or from physician equivalent or greater parental income levels (myself included). Very few people were URMs, the first to go to college or the first physician in their family. Not saying that one background makes you a better physician but simply acknowledge the advantage one has if one is sent to the best prep schools, has parents that can set them up with shadowing/research in college, get into T20 med school because parents can afford every MCAT book/course available, etc.

If neurosurgery and other competitive specialties are going to emphasize medical school tier (and as an indirect product, research output) more heavily in the post-Step 1 world, then the number of underrepresented minorities will likely not increase in neurosurgical (and subspecialty medical training i.e. ENT/plastics/derm/IR/ortho/etc.). You can argue that less URMs will get into good colleges and less will get into medical school upstream because of the Court's ruling.

Again, I don't think race should play a large role in resident selection, but acknowledge that many people don't have the same good fortune as you do to be in this position. I personally think low socioeconomic status (not race) should play a bigger role in college/medical school selection.

[Guest]

The problem with using race in admissions is that it only relies on stereotypes and assumptions of what people have gone through. Nearly every black classmate I had during medical school came from the same privilege (eg, physician parent, high SES) that is classically attributed to white students. Have talked to friends at other schools and they reported a very similar trend. Med school favors SES, regardless of race. I was aware of several Asian classmates who were first gens, had parents that immigrated and didn’t speak English, etc. Who overcame more?

Race based admissions is absolute dogshit and only reinforces racial divide. I’m all in favor at looking at individuals stories/character, but character isn’t a color.

[Guest]

The smartest, richest, and well-connected will always get in wherever they want, regardless of AA. You think <insert big name neurosurgeon’s kid> was ever at risk for not going to whatever the fuck program they wanted? You think anyone who would be in a position to fix it is going to change this system and hose their offspring?

AA never addressed any disparity that mattered. Nobody has been willing to get rid of unqualified rich kids as long as mommy and daddy can pay the price. The policies were displacing mediocre non-URM students with mediocre URM students, and the effect was pretty small.

[Guest]

Why should I be punished because my parents were smarter/ worked harder than your parents? Not my problem that your daddy was a dum dum.

[Guest]

If you’re punished by these policies, you’re a dum dum that’s only where you’re at because of your parents. You’re not exceptional, and you know that. If you were, you wouldn’t worry about it. Affirmative action threatens you because you know you’re mediocre and need every shred of advantage to succeed since you can’t do it on your own.

Also keep in mind, you’re threatened because your parents weren’t good enough to develop the connections to guarantee your success. So…they could’ve done better too.

[Guest]

T5 Asian Chad with middle class Asian immigrant parents and good social skills checking in.

[Guest]

Did you guys see the Netflix documentary on colleges’ admission? If not, I would encourage you to watch it.

Similarly, Neurosurgery is at high risk of nepotism and arranged matches. Time will tell.

[Guest]

(07-02-2023, 07:40 PM)Guest Wrote: T5 Asian Chad with middle class Asian immigrant parents and good social skills checking in.

No asian has good social skills dum dum

[Guest]

Quote:Why should I be punished because my parents were smarter/ worked harder than your parents? Not my problem that your daddy was a dum dum.

Agree. 

However, its not about smarter/hard working parents. Its about INTERESTED and SUPPORTIVE parents. In Asian cultures (generally) parents strongly support education, respect for teachers, and guide and support their kids. This is true for upper middle-class white culture as well. This leads to successful kids.

I recall from 9th grade an (Asian) guy who was smart but sort of drifting, going off with the wrong crowd, doing drugs. His (lower middle class) parents sold off their home and moved into a tiny apartment. They took him out of the public school and used all their money to send him to an elite boarding school. Apparently, he did well at this elite school and went into an Ivy for college and I think a master's. Anyways, he ended up at those elite Wall Street banks. 

So I always think, if he had uninterested parents who just let him drift, he'd probably end up a drug addict or something. But his parents made a huge sacrifice and that changed his life. 

So I'd say a big reason many Asians tend to succeed is because they have parents who support them 100%. Even if they are poor, the parents will make huge sacrifice, will save up, will fill out college paperwork, etc. Even just encouragement is something that can make a world of difference. Obviously, this is just generalizing but their are differences in culture for sure.