(05-10-2020, 05:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 01:08 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-08-2020, 12:23 PM)Guest Wrote: Given that residency interviews might be virtual this year, if graduating M4's could write some more of their experiences with different places (positive and negative) I think all of the people applying this cycle would greatly appreciate that!
I can give it a shot but again it depends on what you want out of a program. The "best" program is the one that has what you're looking for - in terms of operative training, culture, and location. MD/PhDs who want to have their own lab and a lot of basic science resources would favor certain programs vs. those who want the best possible operative experience. For me I wanted a more or less operative program that had a lot of resources for residents, great culture, and lots of clinical research opportunities without sacrificing reputation. My top 4 in no specific order ended up being:
Barrow: Amazing all around. Really cool group of residents who were fun to hang out and work with. Incredible OR experience - obviously the reputation is in vascular but residents were doing complex tumors skin to skin with Sanai and Smith, tons of spine with Uribe, and skull base. Felt like a family, the residents would all hang out at each other's house, even have pool parties before going to MTL rounds in the afternoon. PGY-4 and up (- chief year) you literally just come in to operate, no bullshit, no clinic, no floorwork - you just pick your case and do it from start to finish and go home. Attendings have video feeds of your scope in the OR and basically sit in their offices watching you operate. Cases get chosen based on seniority and after junior residency you basically get to do whatever you want. Chiefs get preference over any fellows. The real MTL fellowship is clearly the PGY-7 year at the BNI.
Mayo Rochester: Absolutely incredible program. Residents have every resource imaginable. Instead of a classic service where you round on a long list of 60 patients in the morning you only carry those of the 1-2 attendings you're working with. In house call is something like Q10 but you always hold the pager for your 8 patients. They're your patients from start to finish and residents PGY-3/4 and up were doing the vast majority of the cases independently (like T2-pelvis, posterior fossa tumors). Quite a bit of open vascular with Meyer/Lanzino, very strong skull base with Link/JVG, tons of complex spine - huge deformity cases, tumors, functional with Kendall Lee. Independent chief year where you have your own clinic and referrals - chiefs were doing everything from skull base tumors to carotids with no attending. Residents have 2 elective years that are completely protected. One went to work with Hugues Duffau in France (fully funded). Have the option to do any electives at Mayo Florida/Arizona. Can enfold peripheral nerve, skull base (both some of the best in the country), spine, etc. as a PGY-5, 6, or 7.
UW: Very strong and really well balanced program. Big names like Ellenbogen, Sekhar, Kim. Some of the best basic science research around, but the residents also get really awesome training in both a private hospital and Haborview experience. Amazing skull base and peds. Huge trauma experience that you can only find at a handful of places. This obviously comes with the downside of getting crushed on call, but if you want a good operative experience, you're going to be crushed at any good program apart from Barrow or Mayo -it's really not that bad. After PGY-4 year the residents have a great time and were routinely out by 7-8. Get some of the best fellowships and academic jobs at big name places. The chair really cares about the residents and goes to bat hard for them. Really fantastic group of residents.
USC: Loved this place. This is what neurosurgery was probably like at most programs 30 years ago. Completely resident-driven program. You get incredible autonomy within one of the busiest hospitals in the country. At county you'll see the chiefs bouncing from room to room, junior residents doing the entire case, even Sub-Is getting to do a lot more in the OR than at most places. The culture and work atmosphere brings the residents very close together and some of the juniors would facetime us at the hospital during their post-call day just to check in. Makes for an amazing work environment where everyone really has your back. Internal R25 grant for the residents who want to take a research year. There was talk of potentially allowing a PGY-7 fellowship year, but the culture is so tight-knit that no one wanted to do it because the residents wanted to stay together in their original class. Fun, warm city and great leadership.
Great write-up, thank you so much!
1) Would love to hear about other programs you saw and what you didn't like as much. It's just as useful for us to hear the flaws in programs (+ this is an anonymous forum and it shouldn't be a secret if programs have issues)
2) Would love to hear from any other residents
3) Is getting out by 7-8 really considered "good" as a senior? I'm sure that's still a 12-13 hour day. Is it bearable because they get better weekends off?
if you have a problem with a 12-13 hour day, look elsewhere than neurosurgery. okay buddy?
2nd this. 12-13 hour day is a short day during any quality residency.
(05-10-2020, 05:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 01:08 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-08-2020, 12:23 PM)Guest Wrote: Given that residency interviews might be virtual this year, if graduating M4's could write some more of their experiences with different places (positive and negative) I think all of the people applying this cycle would greatly appreciate that!
I can give it a shot but again it depends on what you want out of a program. The "best" program is the one that has what you're looking for - in terms of operative training, culture, and location. MD/PhDs who want to have their own lab and a lot of basic science resources would favor certain programs vs. those who want the best possible operative experience. For me I wanted a more or less operative program that had a lot of resources for residents, great culture, and lots of clinical research opportunities without sacrificing reputation. My top 4 in no specific order ended up being:
Barrow: Amazing all around. Really cool group of residents who were fun to hang out and work with. Incredible OR experience - obviously the reputation is in vascular but residents were doing complex tumors skin to skin with Sanai and Smith, tons of spine with Uribe, and skull base. Felt like a family, the residents would all hang out at each other's house, even have pool parties before going to MTL rounds in the afternoon. PGY-4 and up (- chief year) you literally just come in to operate, no bullshit, no clinic, no floorwork - you just pick your case and do it from start to finish and go home. Attendings have video feeds of your scope in the OR and basically sit in their offices watching you operate. Cases get chosen based on seniority and after junior residency you basically get to do whatever you want. Chiefs get preference over any fellows. The real MTL fellowship is clearly the PGY-7 year at the BNI.
Mayo Rochester: Absolutely incredible program. Residents have every resource imaginable. Instead of a classic service where you round on a long list of 60 patients in the morning you only carry those of the 1-2 attendings you're working with. In house call is something like Q10 but you always hold the pager for your 8 patients. They're your patients from start to finish and residents PGY-3/4 and up were doing the vast majority of the cases independently (like T2-pelvis, posterior fossa tumors). Quite a bit of open vascular with Meyer/Lanzino, very strong skull base with Link/JVG, tons of complex spine - huge deformity cases, tumors, functional with Kendall Lee. Independent chief year where you have your own clinic and referrals - chiefs were doing everything from skull base tumors to carotids with no attending. Residents have 2 elective years that are completely protected. One went to work with Hugues Duffau in France (fully funded). Have the option to do any electives at Mayo Florida/Arizona. Can enfold peripheral nerve, skull base (both some of the best in the country), spine, etc. as a PGY-5, 6, or 7.
UW: Very strong and really well balanced program. Big names like Ellenbogen, Sekhar, Kim. Some of the best basic science research around, but the residents also get really awesome training in both a private hospital and Haborview experience. Amazing skull base and peds. Huge trauma experience that you can only find at a handful of places. This obviously comes with the downside of getting crushed on call, but if you want a good operative experience, you're going to be crushed at any good program apart from Barrow or Mayo -it's really not that bad. After PGY-4 year the residents have a great time and were routinely out by 7-8. Get some of the best fellowships and academic jobs at big name places. The chair really cares about the residents and goes to bat hard for them. Really fantastic group of residents.
USC: Loved this place. This is what neurosurgery was probably like at most programs 30 years ago. Completely resident-driven program. You get incredible autonomy within one of the busiest hospitals in the country. At county you'll see the chiefs bouncing from room to room, junior residents doing the entire case, even Sub-Is getting to do a lot more in the OR than at most places. The culture and work atmosphere brings the residents very close together and some of the juniors would facetime us at the hospital during their post-call day just to check in. Makes for an amazing work environment where everyone really has your back. Internal R25 grant for the residents who want to take a research year. There was talk of potentially allowing a PGY-7 fellowship year, but the culture is so tight-knit that no one wanted to do it because the residents wanted to stay together in their original class. Fun, warm city and great leadership.
Great write-up, thank you so much!
1) Would love to hear about other programs you saw and what you didn't like as much. It's just as useful for us to hear the flaws in programs (+ this is an anonymous forum and it shouldn't be a secret if programs have issues)
2) Would love to hear from any other residents
3) Is getting out by 7-8 really considered "good" as a senior? I'm sure that's still a 12-13 hour day. Is it bearable because they get better weekends off?
if you have a problem with a 12-13 hour day, look elsewhere than neurosurgery. okay buddy?
Lol ok man, it was a simple question to get more info. Not afraid of long hours, just trying to get a sense of what to expect from 7 years of my life. But thanks for the advice!
(05-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: Great write-up, thank you so much!
1) Would love to hear about other programs you saw and what you didn't like as much. It's just as useful for us to hear the flaws in programs (+ this is an anonymous forum and it shouldn't be a secret if programs have issues)
2) Would love to hear from any other residents
3) Is getting out by 7-8 really considered "good" as a senior? I'm sure that's still a 12-13 hour day. Is it bearable because they get better weekends off?
There weren't any programs that I clearly just didn't like. It all comes down to preference and what you're looking for in a place. I really liked the faculty at MGH and Michigan but I didn't want to sacrifice the operative volume and autonomy for more basic science opportunities. Some of my close friends absolutely loved those places and to them having access to those labs and internal opportunities is critical to what they want to do in residency and so they value that more. To them, not having that large university setting is a weakness of a place like the BNI. There isn't 1 best place, there's only the place that has the most things YOU are looking for.
Yea, I'd say getting out at 7-8 is good for a senior. Remember that you're often not the one coming in at 4 to pre-round at that point or writing a bunch of notes (again minus the chief year because you run the service and do cases overnight).
(05-10-2020, 06:26 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: Great write-up, thank you so much!
1) Would love to hear about other programs you saw and what you didn't like as much. It's just as useful for us to hear the flaws in programs (+ this is an anonymous forum and it shouldn't be a secret if programs have issues)
2) Would love to hear from any other residents
3) Is getting out by 7-8 really considered "good" as a senior? I'm sure that's still a 12-13 hour day. Is it bearable because they get better weekends off?
There weren't any programs that I clearly just didn't like. It all comes down to preference and what you're looking for in a place. I really liked the faculty at MGH and Michigan but I didn't want to sacrifice the operative volume and autonomy for more basic science opportunities. Some of my close friends absolutely loved those places and to them having access to those labs and internal opportunities is critical to what they want to do in residency and so they value that more. To them, not having that large university setting is a weakness of a place like the BNI. There isn't 1 best place, there's only the place that has the most things YOU are looking for.
Yea, I'd say getting out at 7-8 is good for a senior. Remember that you're often not the one coming in at 4 to pre-round at that point or writing a bunch of notes (again minus the chief year because you run the service and do cases overnight).
Great info again, thank you. Really appreciate your perspective.
I can give perspective on UCSD, I subside and interviewed there. Faculty seemed disconnected from residents. The Chairman wasn't even at the interview. The original PD was fired, and the new one couldn't hold a conversation. The residents often triple scrubbed. Very low volume other than skull base acoustic neuromas from their skull base guy (those cases appear to be done by the ENT fellow, however).
Residents didn't seem to fully get along. A few were making fun of another resident behind his back. Just seemed malignant. Residents had too much time on their hands, didn't write papers. Didn't operate much.
To be honest, I didn't rank it once I interviewed. I ended up matching at Yale for fwiw
(05-10-2020, 06:56 PM)Guest Wrote: I can give perspective on UCSD, I subside and interviewed there. Faculty seemed disconnected from residents. The Chairman wasn't even at the interview. The original PD was fired, and the new one couldn't hold a conversation. The residents often triple scrubbed. Very low volume other than skull base acoustic neuromas from their skull base guy (those cases appear to be done by the ENT fellow, however).
Residents didn't seem to fully get along. A few were making fun of another resident behind his back. Just seemed malignant. Residents had too much time on their hands, didn't write papers. Didn't operate much.
To be honest, I didn't rank it once I interviewed. I ended up matching at Yale for fwiw
Damn Sub-I'd at one malignant program and matched at another
(05-10-2020, 06:56 PM)Guest Wrote: I can give perspective on UCSD, I subside and interviewed there. Faculty seemed disconnected from residents. The Chairman wasn't even at the interview. The original PD was fired, and the new one couldn't hold a conversation. The residents often triple scrubbed. Very low volume other than skull base acoustic neuromas from their skull base guy (those cases appear to be done by the ENT fellow, however).
Residents didn't seem to fully get along. A few were making fun of another resident behind his back. Just seemed malignant. Residents had too much time on their hands, didn't write papers. Didn't operate much.
To be honest, I didn't rank it once I interviewed. I ended up matching at Yale for fwiw
SubI'd here a few years ago and had a very similar experience. Very low volume. Many days had only 2 cases total at Jacobs, the nights I took call had very few traumas. Residents were not very friendly or cohesive and only hung out when a journal club was being sponsored by a rep. Now that I'm a resident, I appreciate so much more that the residents didn't really know how to operate.
(05-11-2020, 03:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 06:56 PM)Guest Wrote: I can give perspective on UCSD, I subside and interviewed there. Faculty seemed disconnected from residents. The Chairman wasn't even at the interview. The original PD was fired, and the new one couldn't hold a conversation. The residents often triple scrubbed. Very low volume other than skull base acoustic neuromas from their skull base guy (those cases appear to be done by the ENT fellow, however).
Residents didn't seem to fully get along. A few were making fun of another resident behind his back. Just seemed malignant. Residents had too much time on their hands, didn't write papers. Didn't operate much.
To be honest, I didn't rank it once I interviewed. I ended up matching at Yale for fwiw
SubI'd here a few years ago and had a very similar experience. Very low volume. Many days had only 2 cases total at Jacobs, the nights I took call had very few traumas. Residents were not very friendly or cohesive and only hung out when a journal club was being sponsored by a rep. Now that I'm a resident, I appreciate so much more that the residents didn't really know how to operate.
Was the volume different a few years ago than what it is now? Heard once Bob Carter left and took faculty, there was a vacuum. With Khalessi hiring more surgeons, will this volume problem be solved?
(05-11-2020, 03:54 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-11-2020, 03:20 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-10-2020, 06:56 PM)Guest Wrote: I can give perspective on UCSD, I subside and interviewed there. Faculty seemed disconnected from residents. The Chairman wasn't even at the interview. The original PD was fired, and the new one couldn't hold a conversation. The residents often triple scrubbed. Very low volume other than skull base acoustic neuromas from their skull base guy (those cases appear to be done by the ENT fellow, however).
Residents didn't seem to fully get along. A few were making fun of another resident behind his back. Just seemed malignant. Residents had too much time on their hands, didn't write papers. Didn't operate much.
To be honest, I didn't rank it once I interviewed. I ended up matching at Yale for fwiw
SubI'd here a few years ago and had a very similar experience. Very low volume. Many days had only 2 cases total at Jacobs, the nights I took call had very few traumas. Residents were not very friendly or cohesive and only hung out when a journal club was being sponsored by a rep. Now that I'm a resident, I appreciate so much more that the residents didn't really know how to operate.
Was the volume different a few years ago than what it is now? Heard once Bob Carter left and took faculty, there was a vacuum. With Khalessi hiring more surgeons, will this volume problem be solved?
How do MGH and UCSD compare?
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