In search of a PGY2 position

[Guest]

This threat kind of makes me want to go to NYU

[Pseudoarthrosis]

Shouldn’t all these medical students posting here be reading about the Krebs cycle or something?

Being an asshole may have flown in the field 20 years ago when the field was less competitive, but absolutely most programs try to weed these people out in interviews today. Why do I need to put up with some puffed up jackass for the next few years who is going to piss off dozens of other people in the hospital weekly (who then will complain to me, forcing me to deal with it), when there are probably ten other people applying for the same spot with the same credentials who won’t generate as much drama?

Absolutely if you fuck something up, especially if you do it habitually, you are going to get pulled aside and talked to, maybe even yelled at - patient care is patient care and mistakes need to have consequences - but this isn’t some television show, no one is going to put you in a headlock to dramatic music.

I doubt that any of these “in my day we had thick skin” posters were even born yet at the time they claimed to have trained, but honestly if you are such shit at your job that you are getting yelled at constantly and need to persevere through so much abuse, maybe the real problem is that you are just a bad resident.

To the OP - if the issue is as you state, and you can get others to vouch for your story and provide concrete, documented examples, I would think many PDs would at least give you a look. All these other posters also grossly overestimate the number of available applicants who can fill post-internship spots.

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 01:41 AM)Pseudoarthrosis Wrote: Shouldn’t all these medical students posting here be reading about the Krebs cycle or something?

Being an asshole may have flown in the field 20 years ago when the field was less competitive, but absolutely most programs try to weed these people out in interviews today. Why do I need to put up with some puffed up jackass for the next few years who is going to piss off dozens of other people in the hospital weekly (who then will complain to me, forcing me to deal with it), when there are probably ten other people applying for the same spot with the same credentials who won’t generate as much drama?

Absolutely if you fuck something up, especially if you do it habitually, you are going to get pulled aside and talked to, maybe even yelled at - patient care is patient care and mistakes need to have consequences - but this isn’t some television show, no one is going to put you in a headlock to dramatic music.

I doubt that any of these “in my day we had thick skin” posters were even born yet at the time they claimed to have trained, but honestly if you are such shit at your job that you are getting yelled at constantly and need to persevere through so much abuse, maybe the real problem is that you are just a bad resident.

To the OP - if the issue is as you state, and you can get others to vouch for your story and provide concrete, documented examples, I would think many PDs would at least give you a look. All these other posters also grossly overestimate the number of available applicants who can fill post-internship spots.

Well said, and about time.

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 01:41 AM)Pseudoarthrosis Wrote: Shouldn’t all these medical students posting here be reading about the Krebs cycle or something?

Being an asshole may have flown in the field 20 years ago when the field was less competitive, but absolutely most programs try to weed these people out in interviews today. Why do I need to put up with some puffed up jackass for the next few years who is going to piss off dozens of other people in the hospital weekly (who then will complain to me, forcing me to deal with it), when there are probably ten other people applying for the same spot with the same credentials who won’t generate as much drama?

Absolutely if you fuck something up, especially if you do it habitually, you are going to get pulled aside and talked to, maybe even yelled at - patient care is patient care and mistakes need to have consequences - but this isn’t some television show, no one is going to put you in a headlock to dramatic music.

I doubt that any of these “in my day we had thick skin” posters were even born yet at the time they claimed to have trained, but honestly if you are such shit at your job that you are getting yelled at constantly and need to persevere through so much abuse, maybe the real problem is that you are just a bad resident.

To the OP - if the issue is as you state, and you can get others to vouch for your story and provide concrete, documented examples, I would think many PDs  would at least give you a look. All these other posters also grossly overestimate the number of available applicants who can fill post-internship spots.

You're being disingenuous. Abuse and all kinds of shady behavior happens at a bunch of programs all around the country, at least in neurosurgery. There's no way you wouldn't know this if you're actually in the field and have friends who are residents at other programs. At my program I've seen seniors ganging up on 2s and 3s, making shit up to attendings to try and get them fired, yelling and threats when other people weren't listening, etc. Just from my own group of friends I could point to over a dozen programs where shit like this routinely occurs. It's not all in 1 region either. Look at Utah and what's happening to their intern..

Second, her story doesn't make a lot of sense. Was this abuse reported to the program? If not then there's zero corroboration. If so, and no changes were made, then they obviously didn't think it was significant enough and/or couldn't corroborate it in which case they won't back her up. Either way tough spot to be in.

[Pseudoarthrosis]

(02-16-2018, 02:19 AM)Guest Wrote: You're being disingenuous. Abuse and all kinds of shady behavior happens at a bunch of programs all around the country, at least in neurosurgery. There's no way you wouldn't know this if you're actually in the field and have friends who are residents at other programs. At my program I've seen seniors ganging up on 2s and 3s, making shit up to attendings to try and get them fired, yelling and threats when other people weren't listening, etc. Just from my own group of friends I could point to over a dozen programs where shit like this routinely occurs. It's not all in 1 region either. Look at Utah and what's happening to their intern..

Second, her story doesn't make a lot of sense. Was this abuse reported to the program? If not then there's zero corroboration. If so, and no changes were made, then they obviously didn't think it was significant enough and/or couldn't corroborate it in which case they won't back her up. Either way tough spot to be in.

As a general rule, I assume whenever someone says something like “I have dozens of friends all over the country who see this all the time!” it means “these things are happening to me and so I assume that is everyone else’s experience!” I may be an old at this point, but even among my closest friends in Neurosurgery at other institutions, I’m not texting them daily updates about going ons with my life professional or otherwise - we chat occasionally when something major occurs, get drunk together at meetings, and make fun of various attendings/other residents’ quirks over dinner when we are in the same town for a night.  Is this all happening on “the Twitter?” Do you have some massive junior resident text chain where you just catalogue every shitty thing that happens to any of you in some sort of horrible stream of consciousness? I’m afraid I’m going to have to call bullshit.

Regardless, just because we try to select somewhat normal, personable human beings (at least at our program and the four programs I have more than a passing experience with through rotations/fellowship), doesn’t mean we always succeed. There definitely are asshats in our field, probably more than average though I would argue not by a significant amount. I’m also not saying that residency is going to be full of high fives and stories by the campfire - absolutely you are going to get chewed out a multitude of times, some of which will be for things that aren’t your fault. This image of a gang of sociopathic neurosurgical goons constantly at each other’s throats, pinning interns against walls, where the only way to succeed is to be a sociopathic goon yourself, however, is what is “disingenuous.”

I agree that there are a lot of questions raised by the OP’s account. I never take anything at face value, let alone some post on a very disreputable forum by someone who is probably a Russian bot, which is why I stated she needs to have others vouching for her story and documentation. Before any of this, my advice to her (and to you, who seems to be getting ganged up on by the seniors who are “making shit up”), is to carefully appraise what has been said and reported about you up to this point. While I’m certain there are some very unfortunate interns and junior residents (and chiefs and fellows!) out there who are maligned unfairly due to personality clashes, there are probably more who simply have no insight into the fact that they may just be bad doctors with an outsized ego. The correct course of action requires knowing which category you fall into.

[Guest]

What’s happening to Utah’s intern?

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 03:11 AM)Pseudoarthrosis Wrote:

(02-16-2018, 02:19 AM)Guest Wrote: You're being disingenuous. Abuse and all kinds of shady behavior happens at a bunch of programs all around the country, at least in neurosurgery. There's no way you wouldn't know this if you're actually in the field and have friends who are residents at other programs. At my program I've seen seniors ganging up on 2s and 3s, making shit up to attendings to try and get them fired, yelling and threats when other people weren't listening, etc. Just from my own group of friends I could point to over a dozen programs where shit like this routinely occurs. It's not all in 1 region either. Look at Utah and what's happening to their intern..

Second, her story doesn't make a lot of sense. Was this abuse reported to the program? If not then there's zero corroboration. If so, and no changes were made, then they obviously didn't think it was significant enough and/or couldn't corroborate it in which case they won't back her up. Either way tough spot to be in.

As a general rule, I assume whenever someone says something like “I have dozens of friends all over the country who see this all the time!” it means “these things are happening to me and so I assume that is everyone else’s experience!” I may be an old at this point, but even among my closest friends in Neurosurgery at other institutions, I’m not texting them daily updates about going ons with my life professional or otherwise - we chat occasionally when something major occurs, get drunk together at meetings, and make fun of various attendings/other residents’ quirks over dinner when we are in the same town for a night.  Is this all happening on “the Twitter?” Do you have some massive junior resident text chain where you just catalogue every shitty thing that happens to any of you in some sort of horrible stream of consciousness? I’m afraid I’m going to have to call bullshit.

Regardless, just because we try to select somewhat normal, personable human beings (at least at our program and the four programs I have more than a passing experience with through rotations/fellowship), doesn’t mean we always succeed. There definitely are asshats in our field, probably more than average though I would argue not by a significant amount. I’m also not saying that residency is going to be full of high fives and stories by the campfire - absolutely you are going to get chewed out a multitude of times, some of which will be for things that aren’t your fault. This image of a gang of sociopathic neurosurgical goons constantly at each other’s throats, pinning interns against walls, where the only way to succeed is to be a sociopathic goon yourself, however, is what is “disingenuous.”

I agree that there are a lot of questions raised by the OP’s account. I never take anything at face value, let alone some post on a very disreputable forum by someone who is probably a Russian bot, which is why I stated she needs to have others vouching for her story and documentation. Before any of this, my advice to her (and to you, who seems to be getting ganged up on by the seniors who are “making shit up”), is to carefully appraise what has been said and reported about you up to this point. While I’m certain there are some very unfortunate interns and junior residents (and chiefs and fellows!) out there who are maligned unfairly due to personality clashes, there are probably more who simply have no insight into the fact that they may just be bad doctors with an outsized ego. The correct course of action requires knowing which category you fall into.

Do I text my friends a lot? Yeah man and our closest friends do have a group text where we dick around and rip on people doing dumb shit. That's what most normal people who actually have real friends do. Did you ever have friends in college/med school or were you that weird loner who watched anime in his room?

I'm a 6 and the chiefs are some of my best friends but thanks for the advice. Your knee jerk reaction to just dismiss everything you read as written by med students or flip it on the person who's posting just reeks of some old fart attending who's aghast that anything could possibly be going on that doesn't fit in with his perfect world of how neurosurgery should be. It sounds like your program is a great place to train and that you have (as far as you know) a great culture. I'm happy for you. Just accept that this might not be the case everywhere.

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 06:53 AM)Guest Wrote: Guest
What’s happening to Utah’s intern?

Bump

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 11:40 AM)Guest Wrote:

(02-16-2018, 06:53 AM)Guest Wrote: Guest
What’s happening to Utah’s intern?

Bump

They had some really malignant seniors who threw her under the bus and got her into a bit of trouble with the program early on. There was talk of them potentially not moving on to next year. They fired a PGY-2 a couple years back under the pretext of visa issues. Just an unfortunate situation all around.

[Guest]

(02-16-2018, 01:31 PM)Guest Wrote:

(02-16-2018, 11:40 AM)Guest Wrote:

(02-16-2018, 06:53 AM)Guest Wrote: Guest
What’s happening to Utah’s intern?

Bump

They had some really malignant seniors who threw her under the bus and got her into a bit of trouble with the program early on. There was talk of them potentially not moving on to next year. They fired a PGY-2 a couple years back under the pretext of visa issues. Just an unfortunate situation all around.

Sounds like neither of them were able to sufficiently do the job.  Don't fault the program for poor protoasm.