Pre-Residency vs Post-Grad Fellow

[Guest]

For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

[Guest]

Are you already a neurosurgeon?

[Guest]

(10-07-2019, 11:41 AM)Guest Wrote: Are you already a neurosurgeon?

Yes

[Guest]

(10-07-2019, 09:48 AM)Guest Wrote: For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

Could not be more different.  Because you're asking this, I assume you've already trained as a neurosurgeon.  If not, you're not qualified for a clinical fellow position anyway.

Pre-residency: Free slave labor operating under the assumption that you are desperate to get into a residency program. You are not accountable under any ACGME duty hour restrictions and the program is under no obligation to train or support you before, during, or after your time with them.  Be prepared to be endlessly abused in exchange for a decent, but by no means guaranteed, shot at matching into a program.  I honestly don't know why anyone would volunteer for this over just working in a lab closely with a neurosurgery PI.

Post-grad "clinical fellow": Tougher to get, but generally assume you are trained and seeking more expertise.  Usually treated as someone who actually knows something and can be effective.  Get to operate.  If you do well, might get supported by faculty for jobs or residency placement.

[Guest]

(10-07-2019, 02:57 PM)Guest Wrote:

(10-07-2019, 09:48 AM)Guest Wrote: For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

Could not be more different.  Because you're asking this, I assume you've already trained as a neurosurgeon.  If not, you're not qualified for a clinical fellow position anyway.

Pre-residency: Free slave labor operating under the assumption that you are desperate to get into a residency program. You are not accountable under any ACGME duty hour restrictions and the program is under no obligation to train or support you before, during, or after your time with them.  Be prepared to be endlessly abused in exchange for a decent, but by no means guaranteed, shot at matching into a program.  I honestly don't know why anyone would volunteer for this over just working in a lab closely with a neurosurgery PI.

Post-grad "clinical fellow": Tougher to get, but generally assume you are trained and seeking more expertise.  Usually treated as someone who actually knows something and can be effective.  Get to operate.  If you do well, might get supported by faculty for jobs or residency placement.

Yes - but the program can still "treat you" like a pre-residency fellow even though it's called a "post-graduate fellowship."  That's why my question, does it really matter?  There are no guarantees of jobs/residency spots after anyway.  Both are usually non-acgme accredited.  So besides what it's called, is there any true differences?

[Guest]

(10-07-2019, 02:57 PM)Guest Wrote:

(10-07-2019, 09:48 AM)Guest Wrote: For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

Pre-residency: Free slave labor operating under the assumption that you are desperate to get into a residency program. You are not accountable under any ACGME duty hour restrictions and the program is under no obligation to train or support you before, during, or after your time with them.  Be prepared to be endlessly abused in exchange for a decent, but by no means guaranteed, shot at matching into a program.  I honestly don't know why anyone would volunteer for this over just working in a lab closely with a neurosurgery PI.

Salary. Even if the stipend is not great, it is a great help for FMGs.

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(10-07-2019, 03:06 PM)Guest Wrote:

(10-07-2019, 02:57 PM)Guest Wrote:

(10-07-2019, 09:48 AM)Guest Wrote: For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

Could not be more different.  Because you're asking this, I assume you've already trained as a neurosurgeon.  If not, you're not qualified for a clinical fellow position anyway.

Pre-residency: Free slave labor operating under the assumption that you are desperate to get into a residency program. You are not accountable under any ACGME duty hour restrictions and the program is under no obligation to train or support you before, during, or after your time with them.  Be prepared to be endlessly abused in exchange for a decent, but by no means guaranteed, shot at matching into a program.  I honestly don't know why anyone would volunteer for this over just working in a lab closely with a neurosurgery PI.

Post-grad "clinical fellow": Tougher to get, but generally assume you are trained and seeking more expertise.  Usually treated as someone who actually knows something and can be effective.  Get to operate.  If you do well, might get supported by faculty for jobs or residency placement.

Yes - but the program can still "treat you" like a pre-residency fellow even though it's called a "post-graduate fellowship."  That's why my question, does it really matter?  There are no guarantees of jobs/residency spots after anyway.  Both are usually non-acgme accredited.  So besides what it's called, is there any true differences?

But the question is, what do you want AFTER the fellowship? Are you trying to get a job in the US or a residency spot or more expertise?

[Guest]

(10-07-2019, 09:48 AM)Guest Wrote: For foreign medical graduates, what's the difference between a pre-residency position or a clinical fellow position.  Does it matter??

Yes, they are different

Pre-residency fellows are at the bottom of the food chain. Basically a sub-I/intern doing floor work, consults, minor procedures, call, etc

A clinical fellow (assuming you refer to post grad fellows) specialize in spine, trauma, vascular, etc

If you’re already a neurosurgeon, I think you’d rather do the latter

If your goal is to get into residency here in the US, both can help you get clinical experience. However, would you rather be doing work at the level of an intern or doing specialized training?

[Guest]

Whoever says both are the same is an idiot

[Guest]

Check out these 2 new papers. I think IMGs need to publish a ton and have a well known mentor to match in the US
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...5020302199


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...5020303442

[Guest]

(02-26-2020, 02:03 PM)Guest Wrote: Check out these 2 new papers. I think IMGs need to publish a ton and have a well known mentor to match in the US
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...5020302199


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...5020303442

Good stuff! Glad I’m not an IMG