covid 19- business as usual?

[Guest]

Another option is to put med students to work as techs or nursing aids. That way they can contribute while learning. That would also free up some staff to stay home with their kids whose schools are cancelled.

[Guest]

License where they match, but it doesn’t matter as the government is allowing doctors to work across state borders during this. There is no downside to being prepared like this.

[Guest]

Better be refunding some tuition if that's your plan though

[Guest]

Or just start their residency pay a bit earlier if necessary. Most are doing nothing anyway.

(03-18-2020, 02:49 PM)Guest Wrote: Better be refunding some tuition if that's your plan though

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:30 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:37 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Guest Wrote: By that argument, we shouldn't have any doctors or nurses in the hospital.

Look at what Italy did, they graduated the entire senior class early.  The only reason medical students are limited is a) they don't want to do anything b) the school administration is afraid of liability.  This scenario is clearly different, they should be there the same as residents.

Sure it's great learning, but a global crisis is not the time for learning. You wouldn't learn how to work a gun from the front lines of a war, and you shouldn't be learning how to treat ARDS for the first time during a pandemic.

Tell that to the soviet's from WWII.

I don't think you guys have any comprehension on the scope and severity of the lack of, literally warm bodies who are able to provide care for patients, that this pandemic will create.  Hiding at home for fear of "not wasting" PPE, or not catching it, is weak at best, and desertion of duty when it comes down to it.

The exact thing we're trying to avoid is a situation akin to the soviets in WWII. A bunch of undertrained young people being thrown at the situation and getting the disease does nothing but put the rest of the population they come in contact with at risk. We don't need manpower, we don't need "literal warm bodies", in fact we need as little "warm bodies" treating this as possible. We need ventilators, we need infrastructure, and we need tests. 

And banning med students to conserve a valuable resource is completely different from "desertion of duty". It's stream lining teams, leaving out members that don't contribute anything useful.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:52 PM)Guest Wrote: Or just start their residency pay a bit earlier if necessary. Most are doing nothing anyway.

(03-18-2020, 02:49 PM)Guest Wrote: Better be refunding some tuition if that's your plan though

This honestly makes the most sense and is the most realistic. Med schools can move up their graduation dates from May to April and mail out diplomas. All M4s can then get credentialed at the hospitals they match at and then start intern year 2 months earlier (with credentialing, computer access, etc.) This is something that would have to be done anyway and increases the workforce earlier.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 02:55 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 02:30 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:37 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Guest Wrote: By that argument, we shouldn't have any doctors or nurses in the hospital.

Look at what Italy did, they graduated the entire senior class early.  The only reason medical students are limited is a) they don't want to do anything b) the school administration is afraid of liability.  This scenario is clearly different, they should be there the same as residents.

Sure it's great learning, but a global crisis is not the time for learning. You wouldn't learn how to work a gun from the front lines of a war, and you shouldn't be learning how to treat ARDS for the first time during a pandemic.

Tell that to the soviet's from WWII.

I don't think you guys have any comprehension on the scope and severity of the lack of, literally warm bodies who are able to provide care for patients, that this pandemic will create.  Hiding at home for fear of "not wasting" PPE, or not catching it, is weak at best, and desertion of duty when it comes down to it.

The exact thing we're trying to avoid is a situation akin to the soviets in WWII. A bunch of undertrained young people being thrown at the situation and getting the disease does nothing but put the rest of the population they come in contact with at risk. We don't need manpower, we don't need "literal warm bodies", in fact we need as little "warm bodies" treating this as possible. We need ventilators, we need infrastructure, and we need tests. 

And banning med students to conserve a valuable resource is completely different from "desertion of duty". It's stream lining teams, leaving out members that don't contribute anything useful.

Lol who are they going to learn from when all of the actual doctors die because there aren't enough people to take care of the sick?

[Guest]

One thing to consider is that this pandemic is not going to be over in two weeks. It isn't feasible suspend all of medical education for multiple months. It won't affect preclinical students. But simulated cases are a poor substitute for clinic/hospital/OR hours.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 03:00 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 02:55 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 02:30 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 01:37 PM)Guest Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:35 PM)Guest Wrote: By that argument, we shouldn't have any doctors or nurses in the hospital.

Look at what Italy did, they graduated the entire senior class early.  The only reason medical students are limited is a) they don't want to do anything b) the school administration is afraid of liability.  This scenario is clearly different, they should be there the same as residents.

Sure it's great learning, but a global crisis is not the time for learning. You wouldn't learn how to work a gun from the front lines of a war, and you shouldn't be learning how to treat ARDS for the first time during a pandemic.

Tell that to the soviet's from WWII.

I don't think you guys have any comprehension on the scope and severity of the lack of, literally warm bodies who are able to provide care for patients, that this pandemic will create.  Hiding at home for fear of "not wasting" PPE, or not catching it, is weak at best, and desertion of duty when it comes down to it.

The exact thing we're trying to avoid is a situation akin to the soviets in WWII. A bunch of undertrained young people being thrown at the situation and getting the disease does nothing but put the rest of the population they come in contact with at risk. We don't need manpower, we don't need "literal warm bodies", in fact we need as little "warm bodies" treating this as possible. We need ventilators, we need infrastructure, and we need tests. 

And banning med students to conserve a valuable resource is completely different from "desertion of duty". It's stream lining teams, leaving out members that don't contribute anything useful.

Lol who are they going to learn from when all of the actual doctors die because there aren't enough people to take care of the sick?

Dude go back to doing your Anki cards. If you were a real resident you'd know that almost every single service in the hospital is operating at bare bones capacity (1-2 people in house max) with the rest of the department at home supporting remotely or twiddling their thumbs because every elective case in canceled. I'm in an epicenter, and we're not even CLOSE to pulling neurosurg residents to go help out on floors/ED, let alone other subspecialties like ENT, ortho, uro, ophtho, GI who are basically all doing nothing right now, let alone med students. Wtf are they even gonna do? Put in tylenol orders? They're not even letting medicine residents tube the COVID pts w/ gas getting called in to do that. We need as FEW people in the hospital as possible right now. The only way "all of the actual doctors die" is if a bunch of med students burn through all of our N95s and have to ask the resident what to do at each step anyway. What we need is more beds and nonessential personnel to gtfo.

[Guest]

(03-18-2020, 03:10 PM)Guest Wrote: One thing to consider is that this pandemic is not going to be over in two weeks. It isn't feasible suspend all of medical education for multiple months. It won't affect preclinical students. But simulated cases are a poor substitute for clinic/hospital/OR hours.

True, but that's more relevant to the MS3s of the world. MS4s are mostly just twiddling their thumbs until residency at this point