Hi all,
MD student at a state school that has a neurosurgery department but does not have a neurosurgery residency program. We have a track record of successfully matching students into neurosurgery. I have LORs from neurosurgery faculty but they are not widely known within academic neurosurgery due to the lack of a home residency program.
With the uncertainty in away rotations, where does this situation put me in terms of needing aways + letters from notable faculty to have a chance at matching? My Step 1 and # of publications are above average for neurosurgery on the Charting Outcomes page.
Thanks, and I hope everybody is staying safe.
Everyone is in the same boat in terms of uncertainty around aways/letters.
It may hurt you in the sense that you cannot match at your home institution so you have to count on another program taking you, which is hard without aways. It may be reasonable to sit this year out with a research year and apply when aways are available.
Unfortunately students without a home program this cycle are at a distinct disadvantage since home program LOR will likely be heavily taken into account this app cycle. Best as above post said to take a year especially if you already have the Step I and publications. Absolutely no need to risk it all this cycle if you cannot do the maximum number of aways.
To add to above two posts, not only students without a home program, but also DO's and IMGs at a disadvantage. Best for all to discuss with their mentors and sit this year out with a research year as opposed to only doing 1 away (or none at all) by the time late summer/fall approaches.
(04-15-2020, 08:07 PM)Guest Wrote: Unfortunately students without a home program this cycle are at a distinct disadvantage since home program LOR will likely be heavily taken into account this app cycle. Best as above post said to take a year especially if you already have the Step I and publications. Absolutely no need to risk it all this cycle if you cannot do the maximum number of aways.
To add to above two posts, not only students without a home program, but also DO's and IMGs at a disadvantage. Best for all to discuss with their mentors and sit this year out with a research year as opposed to only doing 1 away (or none at all) by the time late summer/fall approaches.
Well...but the original poster has average score and average pubs...even without home program...I think he/she still should apply. Home program helps but not all home programs are supportive aka makes that much difference. This will affect all applicants some maybe more than others. A research will definitely help but keep in mind, next year will be more competitive if more people take research year.
(04-15-2020, 08:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-15-2020, 08:07 PM)Guest Wrote: Unfortunately students without a home program this cycle are at a distinct disadvantage since home program LOR will likely be heavily taken into account this app cycle. Best as above post said to take a year especially if you already have the Step I and publications. Absolutely no need to risk it all this cycle if you cannot do the maximum number of aways.
To add to above two posts, not only students without a home program, but also DO's and IMGs at a disadvantage. Best for all to discuss with their mentors and sit this year out with a research year as opposed to only doing 1 away (or none at all) by the time late summer/fall approaches.
Well...but the original poster has average score and average pubs...even without home program...I think he/she still should apply. Home program helps but not all home programs are supportive aka makes that much difference. This will affect all applicants some maybe more than others. A research will definitely help but keep in mind, next year will be more competitive if more people take research year.
Strongly disagree. Without any letters from neurosurgeons, nobody "credible" can validate that you are a good fit for the field. In my opinion, only apply if you have the ability to get letters from at least one neurosurgeon. (and if you get just one, you should be a rockstar otherwise)
(04-15-2020, 11:43 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-15-2020, 08:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-15-2020, 08:07 PM)Guest Wrote: Unfortunately students without a home program this cycle are at a distinct disadvantage since home program LOR will likely be heavily taken into account this app cycle. Best as above post said to take a year especially if you already have the Step I and publications. Absolutely no need to risk it all this cycle if you cannot do the maximum number of aways.
To add to above two posts, not only students without a home program, but also DO's and IMGs at a disadvantage. Best for all to discuss with their mentors and sit this year out with a research year as opposed to only doing 1 away (or none at all) by the time late summer/fall approaches.
Well...but the original poster has average score and average pubs...even without home program...I think he/she still should apply. Home program helps but not all home programs are supportive aka makes that much difference. This will affect all applicants some maybe more than others. A research will definitely help but keep in mind, next year will be more competitive if more people take research year.
Strongly disagree. Without any letters from neurosurgeons, nobody "credible" can validate that you are a good fit for the field. In my opinion, only apply if you have the ability to get letters from at least one neurosurgeon. (and if you get just one, you should be a rockstar otherwise).
The poster has letter from a neurosurgeon...but not someone well known with above average step score and pubs. Also, since this affect everyone...not every applicants will have letter from someone well known especially those who come with lower programs...and all aways are cancelled.
I would still apply this year. Next year sounds brutal with all the kids taking research years and don't forget all the 20+ pub IMGs who didn't match this year (they will be applying again next year and the year after and so until they match). More emphasis will be placed on interviews and personality fit. They can't judge you clinically, because of lack of sub-I letters, but they can still judge you based on personality fit. In this sense, the interview dinner will matter more and so will second looks (if they are allowed at that point).
(04-16-2020, 01:43 AM)Guest Wrote: I would still apply this year. Next year sounds brutal with all the kids taking research years and don't forget all the 20+ pub IMGs who didn't match this year (they will be applying again next year and the year after and so until they match). More emphasis will be placed on interviews and personality fit. They can't judge you clinically, because of lack of sub-I letters, but they can still judge you based on personality fit. In this sense, the interview dinner will matter more and so will second looks (if they are allowed at that point).
Sounds like a med student, possibly Class of 2022, trying to give poor advice. “They can’t judge you clinically”, “they can still judge you based on personality” - a resident or attending would use “we” instead of “they”.
It isn’t easy to gauge personality fit from a quick 1-2 day interview. The chances of in-person interviews or dinners seem incredibly slim. And there will always be people reapplying who didn’t match the year prior. This cycle will include people who didn’t match last year.
(04-16-2020, 01:43 AM)Guest Wrote: I would still apply this year. Next year sounds brutal with all the kids taking research years and don't forget all the 20+ pub IMGs who didn't match this year (they will be applying again next year and the year after and so until they match). More emphasis will be placed on interviews and personality fit. They can't judge you clinically, because of lack of sub-I letters, but they can still judge you based on personality fit. In this sense, the interview dinner will matter more and so will second looks (if they are allowed at that point).
With all due respect this is terrible advice. Interview dinner playing a bigger role this year? Really? Come on.. The OP would undoubtedly largely benefit from the research year, but more importantly the mentorship from an academic neurosurgeon during the year. AANS/CNS/SANS Education has various mentorship opportunities and research internships which would greatly benefit the OP.
(04-16-2020, 02:11 AM)Guest Wrote: (04-16-2020, 01:43 AM)Guest Wrote: I would still apply this year. Next year sounds brutal with all the kids taking research years and don't forget all the 20+ pub IMGs who didn't match this year (they will be applying again next year and the year after and so until they match). More emphasis will be placed on interviews and personality fit. They can't judge you clinically, because of lack of sub-I letters, but they can still judge you based on personality fit. In this sense, the interview dinner will matter more and so will second looks (if they are allowed at that point).
Sounds like a med student, possibly Class of 2022, trying to give poor advice. “They can’t judge you clinically”, “they can still judge you based on personality” - a resident or attending would use “we” instead of “they”.
It isn’t easy to gauge personality fit from a quick 1-2 day interview. The chances of in-person interviews or dinners seem incredibly slim. And there will always be people reapplying who didn’t match the year prior. This cycle will include people who didn’t match last year.
You're correct that I am a med student, but not from the class of 2022. Regardless, it seems this cycle may be less competitive, which would be advantageous for OP to apply this year. But then a research year could help them apply the next year in a possibly more competitive cycle and the OP would be 1 year older. There's pros and cons that we can lay out for OP, but they have to come to a conclusion themselves.
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