(05-30-2021, 07:54 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 06:17 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 05:51 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 03:11 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 10:46 AM)Guest Wrote: There is only like 300 something people who even apply nsgy a year and we are limited to one away so that would mean 10% of all applicants are doing their subI there. Seems like a lot.
It is a lot. But since we're limited to one away, and there are only 300 people applying, and probably an average of ~20+ available spots at the top programs from June through Sept/Oct, I bet the vast majority of applicants will be doing their only sub-i at the top 15-20 programs (whatever 'top' means), and there will probably be 80-90 programs that don't fill all their available sub-i positions.
On the other hand, it probably means you have a relatively good chance of getting into a program you do a sub-i at if it's not one of the handful that are saturated with applicants. Imagine doing a sub-i at a mediocre program and being literally the only person in the country to rotate through there this cycle. Couldn't possibly be in a better position as long as you do a great job on the sub-i. Crazy dynamics.
well shit I’m tempted to drop my subI spot lol. Do they normally
Have 8 subIs per month?? Why increase it so much from prior years? Also
How are people doing their only away in September or October like how will you get a letter of rec which you need since it’s your only away?? This cycle is going to be a shit show
I guess people would rather just go all-out and get the best possible chance at getting into that program even if it means they lose out on a letter of rec for their entire application.
It's insane actually. Could easily tank your app to not have a letter of rec from an away rotation. No one should do a sub-i that ends after September. Non-strategic prestige-chasers is my guess lol
Also insane considering the barrow isn’t for everyone. You’re putting a lot of eggs in a basket that you won’t know if you want until after. Amazing program, but I didn’t rank it in my top 10. There’s so much hype, I think ppl forget to look for what’s personally best for them
lol agreed, so silly to put all your eggs in a basket like that. doing a subi that ends after sept means youd rather increase your chances at 1 program at the detriment of every single other program you apply to. of course Barrow is good, but its a crapshoot getting in there anyways even if it didnt make the rest of your app worse
(05-30-2021, 10:02 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 07:54 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 06:17 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 05:51 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 03:11 PM)Guest Wrote: It is a lot. But since we're limited to one away, and there are only 300 people applying, and probably an average of ~20+ available spots at the top programs from June through Sept/Oct, I bet the vast majority of applicants will be doing their only sub-i at the top 15-20 programs (whatever 'top' means), and there will probably be 80-90 programs that don't fill all their available sub-i positions.
On the other hand, it probably means you have a relatively good chance of getting into a program you do a sub-i at if it's not one of the handful that are saturated with applicants. Imagine doing a sub-i at a mediocre program and being literally the only person in the country to rotate through there this cycle. Couldn't possibly be in a better position as long as you do a great job on the sub-i. Crazy dynamics.
well shit I’m tempted to drop my subI spot lol. Do they normally
Have 8 subIs per month?? Why increase it so much from prior years? Also
How are people doing their only away in September or October like how will you get a letter of rec which you need since it’s your only away?? This cycle is going to be a shit show
I guess people would rather just go all-out and get the best possible chance at getting into that program even if it means they lose out on a letter of rec for their entire application.
It's insane actually. Could easily tank your app to not have a letter of rec from an away rotation. No one should do a sub-i that ends after September. Non-strategic prestige-chasers is my guess lol
Also insane considering the barrow isn’t for everyone. You’re putting a lot of eggs in a basket that you won’t know if you want until after. Amazing program, but I didn’t rank it in my top 10. There’s so much hype, I think ppl forget to look for what’s personally best for them
lol agreed, so silly to put all your eggs in a basket like that. doing a subi that ends after sept means youd rather increase your chances at 1 program at the detriment of every single other program you apply to. of course Barrow is good, but its a crapshoot getting in there anyways even if it didnt make the rest of your app worse
Clearly you guys don’t see the flip side that the folks confidently rotating in September are likely not mediocre applicants and feel safe enough everywhere else with what they have in their CV.
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(05-31-2021, 07:31 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 10:02 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 07:54 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 06:17 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 05:51 PM)Guest Wrote: well shit I’m tempted to drop my subI spot lol. Do they normally
Have 8 subIs per month?? Why increase it so much from prior years? Also
How are people doing their only away in September or October like how will you get a letter of rec which you need since it’s your only away?? This cycle is going to be a shit show
I guess people would rather just go all-out and get the best possible chance at getting into that program even if it means they lose out on a letter of rec for their entire application.
It's insane actually. Could easily tank your app to not have a letter of rec from an away rotation. No one should do a sub-i that ends after September. Non-strategic prestige-chasers is my guess lol
Also insane considering the barrow isn’t for everyone. You’re putting a lot of eggs in a basket that you won’t know if you want until after. Amazing program, but I didn’t rank it in my top 10. There’s so much hype, I think ppl forget to look for what’s personally best for them
lol agreed, so silly to put all your eggs in a basket like that. doing a subi that ends after sept means youd rather increase your chances at 1 program at the detriment of every single other program you apply to. of course Barrow is good, but its a crapshoot getting in there anyways even if it didnt make the rest of your app worse
Clearly you guys don’t see the flip side that the folks confidently rotating in September are likely not mediocre applicants and feel safe enough everywhere else with what they have in their CV.
As someone who rotated at the barrow I would say that there is a fairly dramatic range of CV strength. Two of the guys that I rotated with there didn't match. There are many reasons to rotate somewhere and an objective knowledge of your relative strength compared to all applicants is not necessarily the one. The belief that is one is a super strong applicant or amazing at a subi is probably more common.
(05-31-2021, 07:57 PM)Focus Wrote: (05-31-2021, 07:31 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 10:02 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 07:54 PM)Guest Wrote: (05-30-2021, 06:17 PM)Guest Wrote: I guess people would rather just go all-out and get the best possible chance at getting into that program even if it means they lose out on a letter of rec for their entire application.
It's insane actually. Could easily tank your app to not have a letter of rec from an away rotation. No one should do a sub-i that ends after September. Non-strategic prestige-chasers is my guess lol
Also insane considering the barrow isn’t for everyone. You’re putting a lot of eggs in a basket that you won’t know if you want until after. Amazing program, but I didn’t rank it in my top 10. There’s so much hype, I think ppl forget to look for what’s personally best for them
lol agreed, so silly to put all your eggs in a basket like that. doing a subi that ends after sept means youd rather increase your chances at 1 program at the detriment of every single other program you apply to. of course Barrow is good, but its a crapshoot getting in there anyways even if it didnt make the rest of your app worse
Clearly you guys don’t see the flip side that the folks confidently rotating in September are likely not mediocre applicants and feel safe enough everywhere else with what they have in their CV.
As someone who rotated at the barrow I would say that there is a fairly dramatic range of CV strength. Two of the guys that I rotated with there didn't match. There are many reasons to rotate somewhere and an objective knowledge of your relative strength compared to all applicants is not necessarily the one. The belief that is one is a super strong applicant or amazing at a subi is probably more common.
I don’t think the point was Barrow specifically. But that exact point, that there are a range of applicants and it is for the most part 1st come 1st served, a stellar applicant can rotate in September. Many of the top programs, including ours, have matched October rotators. Rotating after August does not close the door by any means. Particularly with all the logistical barriers with this year forcing many to rotate on the later side.
If people are seriously rotating at Barrow and not matching then that’s just silly. If I was a program director I wouldn’t have students rotate who have CVs that are borderline for neurosurgery in general let alone Barrow.
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(06-06-2021, 12:41 PM)Guest Wrote: If people are seriously rotating at Barrow and not matching then that’s just silly. If I was a program director I wouldn’t have students rotate who have CVs that are borderline for neurosurgery in general let alone Barrow.
Neurosurgery is a small field with a lot of personal connections. It isn't so black and white as saying no thanks when your former co-resident calls you up and says this applicants a star despite his or her CV.
(06-06-2021, 02:18 PM)Focus Wrote: (06-06-2021, 12:41 PM)Guest Wrote: If people are seriously rotating at Barrow and not matching then that’s just silly. If I was a program director I wouldn’t have students rotate who have CVs that are borderline for neurosurgery in general let alone Barrow.
Neurosurgery is a small field with a lot of personal connections. It isn't so black and white as saying no thanks when your former co-resident calls you up and says this applicants a star despite his or her CV.
If that student the co-resident sticks his neck out for doesn’t even match then I’m gonna lose a ton of respect for my old co-resident and not listen to them again regarding who should rotate. As a premed there were programs that prided themselves on the fact that everyone who made it to the interview stage at that program has gotten into an MD program somewhere (even if not there) and I’m just surprised there’s not a similar sort of thing going on in neurosurgery SubIs. But I am new to this I guess, I just feel like I as someone who has mentored others and allowed them to work with me would
Be embarrassed if they flunked out of their subsequent positions and so I wouldn’t just take first come people to work with me.
(06-06-2021, 06:35 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-06-2021, 02:18 PM)Focus Wrote: (06-06-2021, 12:41 PM)Guest Wrote: If people are seriously rotating at Barrow and not matching then that’s just silly. If I was a program director I wouldn’t have students rotate who have CVs that are borderline for neurosurgery in general let alone Barrow.
Neurosurgery is a small field with a lot of personal connections. It isn't so black and white as saying no thanks when your former co-resident calls you up and says this applicants a star despite his or her CV.
If that student the co-resident sticks his neck out for doesn’t even match then I’m gonna lose a ton of respect for my old co-resident and not listen to them again regarding who should rotate. As a premed there were programs that prided themselves on the fact that everyone who made it to the interview stage at that program has gotten into an MD program somewhere (even if not there) and I’m just surprised there’s not a similar sort of thing going on in neurosurgery SubIs. But I am new to this I guess, I just feel like I as someone who has mentored others and allowed them to work with me would
Be embarrassed if they flunked out of their subsequent positions and so I wouldn’t just take first come people to work with me.
So you’d be embarrassed if someone you mentored failed/faced adversity (e.g. not matching)? Sounds like a great mentor lmao.
Neurosurgery, and medicine in general, is full of adversity (e.g. complications, poor outcomes, rejected grants, etc). Mentoring would be easy/useless if all mentees always succeeded at everything.
(06-06-2021, 07:47 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-06-2021, 06:35 PM)Guest Wrote: (06-06-2021, 02:18 PM)Focus Wrote: (06-06-2021, 12:41 PM)Guest Wrote: If people are seriously rotating at Barrow and not matching then that’s just silly. If I was a program director I wouldn’t have students rotate who have CVs that are borderline for neurosurgery in general let alone Barrow.
Neurosurgery is a small field with a lot of personal connections. It isn't so black and white as saying no thanks when your former co-resident calls you up and says this applicants a star despite his or her CV.
If that student the co-resident sticks his neck out for doesn’t even match then I’m gonna lose a ton of respect for my old co-resident and not listen to them again regarding who should rotate. As a premed there were programs that prided themselves on the fact that everyone who made it to the interview stage at that program has gotten into an MD program somewhere (even if not there) and I’m just surprised there’s not a similar sort of thing going on in neurosurgery SubIs. But I am new to this I guess, I just feel like I as someone who has mentored others and allowed them to work with me would
Be embarrassed if they flunked out of their subsequent positions and so I wouldn’t just take first come people to work with me.
So you’d be embarrassed if someone you mentored failed/faced adversity (e.g. not matching)? Sounds like a great mentor lmao.
Neurosurgery, and medicine in general, is full of adversity (e.g. complications, poor outcomes, rejected grants, etc). Mentoring would be easy/useless if all mentees always succeeded at everything.
Yes I would be embarrassed for both of us because I clearly failed as a mentor by letting them apply let alone using their subI shot at a place they had no chance at. Not matching isn’t like having to resubmit a grant; resubmissions have higher funding chances whereas reapplying for the match makes nsgy almost completely out of reach
Allowing someone to rotate for 4 weeks is not really a mentorship. None of the residents or faculty feel any sort emotional connection to that person's success or failure. The student should take some personal responsibility for choosing their sub I locations.
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