Hey everyone!
I'm an MS3 interested in an academic path in neurosurgery but also want to be well-trained technically after completing my residency. I have seen many disparaging comments with regards to MGH in previous threads but was hoping that someone could provide a more nuanced, honest and updated appraisal of what neurosurgical training at Mass General would be like?
Thanks!
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LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
To gently echo the poster above, I rotated at MGH and while some of the rumors were a bit overblown (not every case was triple scrubbed), there was a huge difference in the amount their residents were allowed to do compared to my home program and other places I went to. It really depends on what you're looking for in a program.
(04-27-2021, 03:21 PM)GuestP Wrote: LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
People always say this on here, but as someone finishing residency relatively soon I'm not convinced that actually matters. Are Hervey-Jumper and Khoi Than poor surgeons because they trained at Michigan, a research program? Kalkanis, Hoh, Sheth, Aghi all young(ish) attendings graduating from MGH, currently rising to the top of the national neurosurgery ranks, are they poor surgeons? This notion that you are a poor surgeon after graduating from research heavy programs doesn't seem to prove true when you look at the evidence, and that's coming from a resident at one of the often mentioned "superior technical training programs" on this site. We get our asses kicked with cases but I don't feel much better at hemicranis after my 300th than I did at my 100th.
OP if you want an honest opinion you'll still have the potential to become a great surgeon, that can be said about almost every program in the top 50 on doximity, but a lot will be expected out of you from a research perspective. If you have no interest in basic science that can make you an outcast among faculty leadership and it might make your time in residency harder. This is why you'll always hear us talk about "fit" during interviews. For example my program doesn't care much about research. I spend all my time in the OR, publish 1 or 2 retrospective studies a year, and no one bothers me. I prefer it that way. But if I woke up one day and wanted to find a way to get funding and some day start my own lab my department does not have many of those resources and it would be difficult.
Harvard / Yale Neurosurgeon
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A lot of people are full of jealousy when they hear Harvard. The people who engage in such disparaging repartee did not attend MGH not because they turned it down, but because they had no choice in the matter. Those who attended MGH are too busy doing research or operating...
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(04-27-2021, 04:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-27-2021, 03:21 PM)GuestP Wrote: LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
People always say this on here, but as someone finishing residency relatively soon I'm not convinced that actually matters. Are Hervey-Jumper and Khoi Than poor surgeons because they trained at Michigan, a research program? Kalkanis, Hoh, Sheth, Aghi all young(ish) attendings graduating from MGH, currently rising to the top of the national neurosurgery ranks, are they poor surgeons? This notion that you are a poor surgeon after graduating from research heavy programs doesn't seem to prove true when you look at the evidence, and that's coming from a resident at one of the often mentioned "superior technical training programs" on this site. We get our asses kicked with cases but I don't feel much better at hemicranis after my 300th than I did at my 100th.
OP if you want an honest opinion you'll still have the potential to become a great surgeon, that can be said about almost every program in the top 50 on doximity, but a lot will be expected out of you from a research perspective. If you have no interest in basic science that can make you an outcast among faculty leadership and it might make your time in residency harder. This is why you'll always hear us talk about "fit" during interviews. For example my program doesn't care much about research. I spend all my time in the OR, publish 1 or 2 retrospective studies a year, and no one bothers me. I prefer it that way. But if I woke up one day and wanted to find a way to get funding and some day start my own lab my department does not have many of those resources and it would be difficult.
I have no direct experience with MGH so I am not commenting on that but if you don't feel better at hemicrani 300 than 100 then I wonder if you are making the most of the education that you are getting (or if some other factor is inhibiting you). As a resident at ~2500 cases now I can confidently say that I still feel that I am getting better with every case. Perhaps I am just a slower learner but if that's the case then for the slow learners out there you case volume and the experience you get during cases is a major factor in your polishing. I'm still learning from shunts and the occasional minor procedures that I do. For example lately I have been experimenting with the way I knot my subcuticular stitches to find the most consistently seamless look.
(04-27-2021, 04:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-27-2021, 03:21 PM)GuestP Wrote: LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
We get our asses kicked with cases but I don't feel much better at hemicranis after my 300th than I did at my 100th.
This is a terrible attitude to have as a surgical resident.
(04-29-2021, 10:31 AM)The Guest Wrote: (04-27-2021, 04:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-27-2021, 03:21 PM)GuestP Wrote: LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
We get our asses kicked with cases but I don't feel much better at hemicranis after my 300th than I did at my 100th.
This is a terrible attitude to have as a surgical resident.
Why? Because it’s the honest introspection that most surgeons lack? The truth is there is an asymptotic growth curve with basic cases. After 100 you should only be improving the nuances of your technique.
(04-28-2021, 06:56 PM)Focus Wrote: (04-27-2021, 04:59 PM)Guest Wrote: (04-27-2021, 03:21 PM)GuestP Wrote: LOL “disparaging”...
Sounds like you are looking for someone to reassure you about the poor operative experience and technical training at places like MGH. There’s a reason this reputation sticks, because it is unfortunately true. Do you want superior neurosurgical technical training (Barrow, Carolinas, Mayo, etc) or do you want a superior laboratory experience and be a great researcher only operating 1 day/week?
People always say this on here, but as someone finishing residency relatively soon I'm not convinced that actually matters. Are Hervey-Jumper and Khoi Than poor surgeons because they trained at Michigan, a research program? Kalkanis, Hoh, Sheth, Aghi all young(ish) attendings graduating from MGH, currently rising to the top of the national neurosurgery ranks, are they poor surgeons? This notion that you are a poor surgeon after graduating from research heavy programs doesn't seem to prove true when you look at the evidence, and that's coming from a resident at one of the often mentioned "superior technical training programs" on this site. We get our asses kicked with cases but I don't feel much better at hemicranis after my 300th than I did at my 100th.
OP if you want an honest opinion you'll still have the potential to become a great surgeon, that can be said about almost every program in the top 50 on doximity, but a lot will be expected out of you from a research perspective. If you have no interest in basic science that can make you an outcast among faculty leadership and it might make your time in residency harder. This is why you'll always hear us talk about "fit" during interviews. For example my program doesn't care much about research. I spend all my time in the OR, publish 1 or 2 retrospective studies a year, and no one bothers me. I prefer it that way. But if I woke up one day and wanted to find a way to get funding and some day start my own lab my department does not have many of those resources and it would be difficult.
I have no direct experience with MGH so I am not commenting on that but if you don't feel better at hemicrani 300 than 100 then I wonder if you are making the most of the education that you are getting (or if some other factor is inhibiting you). As a resident at ~2500 cases now I can confidently say that I still feel that I am getting better with every case. Perhaps I am just a slower learner but if that's the case then for the slow learners out there you case volume and the experience you get during cases is a major factor in your polishing. I'm still learning from shunts and the occasional minor procedures that I do. For example lately I have been experimenting with the way I knot my subcuticular stitches to find the most consistently seamless look.
You've done 2500 cases and are still working on your subcuticular stitches?
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