Coming to the end of my stretch of SubIs and doing the typical shit you are supposed to do, but I’m tired of sitting through 10+ hour surgeries in silence and not even being acknowledged even during the start when I say hello and am just fully ignored (I can read a room and no people were not busy, we were waiting for anesthesia to finish placing IVs and shit like this happens on the regular). I know that it’s a buyers market and I’m just a lowly subI, but holy fuck I have some value as an applicant and I’m not even gonna rank these places with attendings that pretend you don’t exist; I’m very much of the philosophy that people’s true personalities are revealed in interactions with people beneath them and I will not be around people like that for 7 years. I don’t think they even view these patients as human; under no circumstances would I want to be operated on at some of these places. If you are at a program where y’all treat your SubIs like shit or as ghosts then please let me know; I don’t expect a red carpet but at least basic decency. End of rant, just not sure why this shit is the way it is. I know some people think if you can’t handle behavior like this then you shouldn’t be in neurosurgery, but at the same time I don’t forget shit like this and it will stick with me when I think of attendings and residents from places like that regardless of their operative skill.
(08-14-2021, 11:35 PM)Guest Wrote: Coming to the end of my stretch of SubIs and doing the typical shit you are supposed to do, but I’m tired of sitting through 10+ hour surgeries in silence and not even being acknowledged even during the start when I say hello and am just fully ignored (I can read a room and no people were not busy, we were waiting for anesthesia to finish placing IVs and shit like this happens on the regular). I know that it’s a buyers market and I’m just a lowly subI, but holy fuck I have some value as an applicant and I’m not even gonna rank these places with attendings that pretend you don’t exist; I’m very much of the philosophy that people’s true personalities are revealed in interactions with people beneath them and I will not be around people like that for 7 years. I don’t think they even view these patients as human; under no circumstances would I want to be operated on at some of these places. If you are at a program where y’all treat your SubIs like shit or as ghosts then please let me know; I don’t expect a red carpet but at least basic decency. End of rant, just not sure why this shit is the way it is. I know some people think if you can’t handle behavior like this then you shouldn’t be in neurosurgery, but at the same time I don’t forget shit like this and it will stick with me when I think of attendings and residents from places like that regardless of their operative skill.
We all went through it.. being a sub I absolutely sucks and some residents make the effort to get you involved and others, well, they just wanna get through the fucking day and survive. Once you’re an intern that giddy Med student who’s trying to show interest will get old quick.. oh and btw this doesn’t magically stop once you’re an intern. you’re still treated like shit even as a junior by your superiors. This is not just in nsgy but true across the board.
(08-14-2021, 11:35 PM)Guest Wrote: Coming to the end of my stretch of SubIs and doing the typical shit you are supposed to do, but I’m tired of sitting through 10+ hour surgeries in silence and not even being acknowledged even during the start when I say hello and am just fully ignored (I can read a room and no people were not busy, we were waiting for anesthesia to finish placing IVs and shit like this happens on the regular). I know that it’s a buyers market and I’m just a lowly subI, but holy fuck I have some value as an applicant and I’m not even gonna rank these places with attendings that pretend you don’t exist; I’m very much of the philosophy that people’s true personalities are revealed in interactions with people beneath them and I will not be around people like that for 7 years. I don’t think they even view these patients as human; under no circumstances would I want to be operated on at some of these places. If you are at a program where y’all treat your SubIs like shit or as ghosts then please let me know; I don’t expect a red carpet but at least basic decency. End of rant, just not sure why this shit is the way it is. I know some people think if you can’t handle behavior like this then you shouldn’t be in neurosurgery, but at the same time I don’t forget shit like this and it will stick with me when I think of attendings and residents from places like that regardless of their operative skill.
Word of advice: pick a different field. This happens every day in neurosurgery at different levels. Next you are just an intern who doesn't get to scrub in, then you are a mid-level resident who just opens and closes, then a chief who only assists under the microscope and then an attending who gets all the 90-year-old subdurals.
Most surgical services have a stark hierarchical structure with a very long progression curve.
(08-15-2021, 11:02 AM)Guest Wrote: (08-14-2021, 11:35 PM)Guest Wrote: Coming to the end of my stretch of SubIs and doing the typical shit you are supposed to do, but I’m tired of sitting through 10+ hour surgeries in silence and not even being acknowledged even during the start when I say hello and am just fully ignored (I can read a room and no people were not busy, we were waiting for anesthesia to finish placing IVs and shit like this happens on the regular). I know that it’s a buyers market and I’m just a lowly subI, but holy fuck I have some value as an applicant and I’m not even gonna rank these places with attendings that pretend you don’t exist; I’m very much of the philosophy that people’s true personalities are revealed in interactions with people beneath them and I will not be around people like that for 7 years. I don’t think they even view these patients as human; under no circumstances would I want to be operated on at some of these places. If you are at a program where y’all treat your SubIs like shit or as ghosts then please let me know; I don’t expect a red carpet but at least basic decency. End of rant, just not sure why this shit is the way it is. I know some people think if you can’t handle behavior like this then you shouldn’t be in neurosurgery, but at the same time I don’t forget shit like this and it will stick with me when I think of attendings and residents from places like that regardless of their operative skill.
Word of advice: pick a different field. This happens every day in neurosurgery at different levels. Next you are just an intern who doesn't get to scrub in, then you are a mid-level resident who just opens and closes, then a chief who only assists under the microscope and then an attending who gets all the 90-year-old subdurals.
Most surgical services have a stark hierarchical structure with a very long progression curve.
As a junior attending, it never ends. At most academic centers you’re stuck taking shitty call and doing shit cases until you build your practice which takes time. In private practice you’re at least paid better but are still a grunt under the more senior guys who dump call on you as well. there’s always a bigger fish..
For SubI's, is there any meaningful contribution medical students can make or is it more about staying out of the way and not slowing anyone down?
(08-15-2021, 02:11 PM)Guest Wrote: For SubI's, is there any meaningful contribution medical students can make or is it more about staying out of the way and not slowing anyone down?
Depends on the program. One of my Sub-i's back in the day had specific tasks for the students, printing the lists, collecting lab numbers. If that's the case then do that, do it well, and do it on time, maybe even test the waters and try to improve on the system. The goal is to be extremely reliable with even the most menial task, which may sound stupid but is an incredibly important attribute of an intern.
In my experience with other sub-is and now with my home program this is the exception not the rule. For the majority of the sub-i's you are there to observe, demonstrate your knowledge base and work ethic, and see if you get along with everyone.
Y'all are so blatantly missing the point. OP doesn't seem to mind the hours, intensity of the work, hierarchy, etc. They're simply bothered that they're not being treated like an actual human. Obviously everyone has scut work, and a lot of it, but there's a difference between only being able to open and close as a PGY2 (which sucks but is part of the process), and being literally ignored when introducing yourself to someone like you don't even exist. If OP minds standing in a case without participating for 10+ hours, then yes, they should switch specialties. But if, like they said, they mostly mind being completely ignored, that's understandable. In my sub-i days, plenty of attendings didn't let me do shit, but at least acknowledged my presence, and did some intra-op teaching when things were slow.
OP, don’t rank programs highly that absolutely ignore your presence. Decide if you love Neurosurgery. Go to a program where they have common decency, there are plenty of them. I’m a resident at a decent blue collar program, we greet and try to include everyone on the team.
|
