(10-18-2021, 01:01 AM)Completely Fucked Wrote: (10-17-2021, 09:06 PM)Focus Wrote: I think some of y'all would benefit from a nice walk in a park. You do not get coupon to relive your life after this. Yes being competitive and budgeting your time are important but don't lose sight of all else. You should be enjoying the process and if you are delaying all gratification under the assumption that things will get better then I suspect you will find that you are never at the point where you can't justify delaying gratification in the future. If getting into neurosurgery is all misery and stress then I suggest you find a different specialty. If that had been my experience during medical school I definitely would not have gone into neurosurgery.
Thank you for all your advice, and thank you to everyone else as well.
I would say I'm enjoying my life as much as can be expected. I wouldn't call myself miserable. I spend my spare time working on research, but I enjoy that.
I walk a lot and enjoy doing Anki as I walk.
I suspect this place suffers from a lot of survivorship bias. The fact is that, the guys who don't match are not going to be posting here. Those guys are going to tell you to plan ahead and spend some time making sure you are making the right decisions. But they don't post here; only the people who are successful post here.
So that's why you get all these "you should relax" comments.
The problem is you seem to think that you have to be god’s gift to neurosurgery to match. And anything short of that is certain failure. Which quite frankly is far from truth. There are plenty of average people. The majority still don’t take gap years, the majority still don’t have tons of research, and step scores have not reached some unattainable ceiling (and is going P/F)
As someone applying now (and took a gap year) I have seen 4 years of matches at my own institution and of course heard of others. And without fail those that did not match were barking at the wrong tree but did not have the foresight/self-awareness to have started on a different course since M3 year. The vast majority of the unmatched aren’t blindsided as you seem to think. Many of them have poor scores or serious character flaws but think they deserve to be in neurosurgery because they’ve been saying they’ll be a pediatric neurosurgeon since they were a kid and have a sense that it is owed to them. You are demonstrating that same attitude. That’s why I think you are far more likely to be unsuccessful due to your mentality and perspective than anything else.
Anecdote: we had an internal conversation applicant last year that went through the past couple years going off to other Med students and even residents about how he was too good to match here, at his own institution, because he was such a stellar applicant. Openly and blatantly insulted faculty and residents to anyone that would listen. This, at what is considered a top 5 program. Surprise he went unmatched… then proceeded to rant on FB. If you want to hear from the unmatched, I bet he’ll tell you he tried to be perfect for 4+ years and inexplicably failed to match and echo your paranoia.
(10-18-2021, 11:17 AM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 01:01 AM)Completely Fucked Wrote: (10-17-2021, 09:06 PM)Focus Wrote: I think some of y'all would benefit from a nice walk in a park. You do not get coupon to relive your life after this. Yes being competitive and budgeting your time are important but don't lose sight of all else. You should be enjoying the process and if you are delaying all gratification under the assumption that things will get better then I suspect you will find that you are never at the point where you can't justify delaying gratification in the future. If getting into neurosurgery is all misery and stress then I suggest you find a different specialty. If that had been my experience during medical school I definitely would not have gone into neurosurgery.
Thank you for all your advice, and thank you to everyone else as well.
I would say I'm enjoying my life as much as can be expected. I wouldn't call myself miserable. I spend my spare time working on research, but I enjoy that.
I walk a lot and enjoy doing Anki as I walk.
I suspect this place suffers from a lot of survivorship bias. The fact is that, the guys who don't match are not going to be posting here. Those guys are going to tell you to plan ahead and spend some time making sure you are making the right decisions. But they don't post here; only the people who are successful post here.
So that's why you get all these "you should relax" comments.
The problem is you seem to think that you have to be god’s gift to neurosurgery to match. And anything short of that is certain failure. Which quite frankly is far from truth. There are plenty of average people. The majority still don’t take gap years, the majority still don’t have tons of research, and step scores have not reached some unattainable ceiling (and is going P/F)
As someone applying now (and took a gap year) I have seen 4 years of matches at my own institution and of course heard of others. And without fail those that did not match were barking at the wrong tree but did not have the foresight/self-awareness to have started on a different course since M3 year. The vast majority of the unmatched aren’t blindsided as you seem to think. Many of them have poor scores or serious character flaws but think they deserve to be in neurosurgery because they’ve been saying they’ll be a pediatric neurosurgeon since they were a kid and have a sense that it is owed to them. You are demonstrating that same attitude. That’s why I think you are far more likely to be unsuccessful due to your mentality and perspective than anything else.
Anecdote: we had an internal conversation applicant last year that went through the past couple years going off to other Med students and even residents about how he was too good to match here, at his own institution, because he was such a stellar applicant. Openly and blatantly insulted faculty and residents to anyone that would listen. This, at what is considered a top 5 program. Surprise he went unmatched… then proceeded to rant on FB. If you want to hear from the unmatched, I bet he’ll tell you he tried to be perfect for 4+ years and inexplicably failed to match and echo your paranoia.
It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Completely Fucked
Unregistered
(10-18-2021, 11:17 AM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 01:01 AM)Completely Fucked Wrote: (10-17-2021, 09:06 PM)Focus Wrote: I think some of y'all would benefit from a nice walk in a park. You do not get coupon to relive your life after this. Yes being competitive and budgeting your time are important but don't lose sight of all else. You should be enjoying the process and if you are delaying all gratification under the assumption that things will get better then I suspect you will find that you are never at the point where you can't justify delaying gratification in the future. If getting into neurosurgery is all misery and stress then I suggest you find a different specialty. If that had been my experience during medical school I definitely would not have gone into neurosurgery.
Thank you for all your advice, and thank you to everyone else as well.
I would say I'm enjoying my life as much as can be expected. I wouldn't call myself miserable. I spend my spare time working on research, but I enjoy that.
I walk a lot and enjoy doing Anki as I walk.
I suspect this place suffers from a lot of survivorship bias. The fact is that, the guys who don't match are not going to be posting here. Those guys are going to tell you to plan ahead and spend some time making sure you are making the right decisions. But they don't post here; only the people who are successful post here.
So that's why you get all these "you should relax" comments.
The problem is you seem to think that you have to be god’s gift to neurosurgery to match. And anything short of that is certain failure. Which quite frankly is far from truth. There are plenty of average people. The majority still don’t take gap years, the majority still don’t have tons of research, and step scores have not reached some unattainable ceiling (and is going P/F)
As someone applying now (and took a gap year) I have seen 4 years of matches at my own institution and of course heard of others. And without fail those that did not match were barking at the wrong tree but did not have the foresight/self-awareness to have started on a different course since M3 year. The vast majority of the unmatched aren’t blindsided as you seem to think. Many of them have poor scores or serious character flaws but think they deserve to be in neurosurgery because they’ve been saying they’ll be a pediatric neurosurgeon since they were a kid and have a sense that it is owed to them. You are demonstrating that same attitude. That’s why I think you are far more likely to be unsuccessful due to your mentality and perspective than anything else.
Anecdote: we had an internal conversation applicant last year that went through the past couple years going off to other Med students and even residents about how he was too good to match here, at his own institution, because he was such a stellar applicant. Openly and blatantly insulted faculty and residents to anyone that would listen. This, at what is considered a top 5 program. Surprise he went unmatched… then proceeded to rant on FB. If you want to hear from the unmatched, I bet he’ll tell you he tried to be perfect for 4+ years and inexplicably failed to match and echo your paranoia.
Oh ok well thank you for that, good luck this season.
So far I have been getting good feedback on the clinical practice things we have as well as on my DPR labs, etc. What do you mean by character flaws?
Everyone I know who went into surgery had pretty bad personality, but not as bad as the gentleman you speak of. I would say my personality is pretty good, based on the feedback I have gotten so far. Amongst my classmates I am well liked.
(10-18-2021, 12:08 PM)Guest Wrote: It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Spoiler: he didn't.
Every year there are some great applicants that fall through the cracks. There are a couple more applicants that could match but don't because of their own hubris (typically only interviewing at a handful of top programs). Most people that hit all the boxes (>240, a handful of papers with 1 or 2 first authorships, decent letters, clean background check - you'd be surprised) end up matching.
I remember from college and now as someone reviewing applications that no one is as perfect as they seem. The people who are the most open about their accomplishments at this stage sometimes have shocking things that are getting covered up. Honestly, when you see someone "mediocre" who matches at a top program there is usually a lot more going on than you know.
You cannot control the game. Accept the stochasticity of the process and put your best foot forward.
(10-18-2021, 02:10 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 12:08 PM)Guest Wrote: It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Spoiler: he didn't.
Every year there are some great applicants that fall through the cracks. There are a couple more applicants that could match but don't because of their own hubris (typically only interviewing at a handful of top programs). Most people that hit all the boxes (>240, a handful of papers with 1 or 2 first authorships, decent letters, clean background check - you'd be surprised) end up matching.
I remember from college and now as someone reviewing applications that no one is as perfect as they seem. The people who are the most open about their accomplishments at this stage sometimes have shocking things that are getting covered up. Honestly, when you see someone "mediocre" who matches at a top program there is usually a lot more going on than you know.
You cannot control the game. Accept the stochasticity of the process and put your best foot forward.
In previous post you said you were applying. Now you are reviewing applications??
(10-18-2021, 02:25 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:10 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 12:08 PM)Guest Wrote: It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Spoiler: he didn't.
Every year there are some great applicants that fall through the cracks. There are a couple more applicants that could match but don't because of their own hubris (typically only interviewing at a handful of top programs). Most people that hit all the boxes (>240, a handful of papers with 1 or 2 first authorships, decent letters, clean background check - you'd be surprised) end up matching.
I remember from college and now as someone reviewing applications that no one is as perfect as they seem. The people who are the most open about their accomplishments at this stage sometimes have shocking things that are getting covered up. Honestly, when you see someone "mediocre" who matches at a top program there is usually a lot more going on than you know.
You cannot control the game. Accept the stochasticity of the process and put your best foot forward.
In previous post you said you were applying. Now you are reviewing applications??
what makes you think anybody you are replying to is the same person
(10-18-2021, 02:33 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:25 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:10 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 12:08 PM)Guest Wrote: It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Spoiler: he didn't.
Every year there are some great applicants that fall through the cracks. There are a couple more applicants that could match but don't because of their own hubris (typically only interviewing at a handful of top programs). Most people that hit all the boxes (>240, a handful of papers with 1 or 2 first authorships, decent letters, clean background check - you'd be surprised) end up matching.
I remember from college and now as someone reviewing applications that no one is as perfect as they seem. The people who are the most open about their accomplishments at this stage sometimes have shocking things that are getting covered up. Honestly, when you see someone "mediocre" who matches at a top program there is usually a lot more going on than you know.
You cannot control the game. Accept the stochasticity of the process and put your best foot forward.
In previous post you said you were applying. Now you are reviewing applications??
what makes you think anybody you are replying to is the same person
Let me explain this.
Poster said he knew an obnoxious guy who didn't match. In same post, poster said he/she is applying this cycle.
Next post, poster says that the obnoxious guy didn't change. Poster says he/she is reviewing applications.
So it must be the same person, because the poster knew what happened to that obnoxious guy.
So either the poster has a time machine, or is lying, or I am missing something.
(10-18-2021, 02:37 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:33 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:25 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 02:10 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-18-2021, 12:08 PM)Guest Wrote: It’s good to hear the system keep attitudes like that out of our field. Hopefully he grew from this experience.
Spoiler: he didn't.
Every year there are some great applicants that fall through the cracks. There are a couple more applicants that could match but don't because of their own hubris (typically only interviewing at a handful of top programs). Most people that hit all the boxes (>240, a handful of papers with 1 or 2 first authorships, decent letters, clean background check - you'd be surprised) end up matching.
I remember from college and now as someone reviewing applications that no one is as perfect as they seem. The people who are the most open about their accomplishments at this stage sometimes have shocking things that are getting covered up. Honestly, when you see someone "mediocre" who matches at a top program there is usually a lot more going on than you know.
You cannot control the game. Accept the stochasticity of the process and put your best foot forward.
In previous post you said you were applying. Now you are reviewing applications??
what makes you think anybody you are replying to is the same person
Let me explain this.
Poster said he knew an obnoxious guy who didn't match. In same post, poster said he/she is applying this cycle.
Next post, poster says that the obnoxious guy didn't change. Poster says he/she is reviewing applications.
So it must be the same person, because the poster knew what happened to that obnoxious guy.
So either the poster has a time machine, or is lying, or I am missing something.
Lol. I am the poster from earlier that commented about the guy ranting on FB. I am applying this year. He does not appear to be re-applying this year. But like I said the things he was saying, in a public place aka social media, doesn’t really suggest he learned a lesson. I think his bridges are burned at our institution and getting letters would be difficult so I am sure he is likely planning to apply this year to a different field if at all.
I think the other poster put a reasonable bet that he didn’t grow because people like that lack introspection which is usually essential for growth. So no, they usually don’t grow from upsets, at least not that quickly. Instead they tend to ferment over how they were wronged. The individual I mentioned displayed a lot of that. To the other question above, that is what I mean by character flaws for example.
I'm the guy that wrote "spoiler: he didn't." What you're missing is: the joke.
I think the best part of this whole process is that it's extremely high stress for everyone on the opposite side of the table. Some of you know what it's like to have a sub-par co-resident. Those people can stick around for years before being shown the door and make hell for everyone else. We're beyond uptight about matching poorly.
Who are we talking about? What institution?
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