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To programs interviewing 30 people per spot
#1
This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.
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#2
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
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#3
(11-16-2021, 10:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
Eh just venting. Feels crazy that we are all doing 30 interviews with interview days that include 14+ interview rooms while other specialties interview 10 places with 2-3 interview rooms. Just seems logical that this could be somewhat tapered if programs only interviewed 10-15 per spot….I highly doubt anywhere drops farther than needing to rank 10 people to fill a spot
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#4
(11-16-2021, 11:36 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 10:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
Eh just venting. Feels crazy that we are all doing 30 interviews with interview days that include 14+ interview rooms while other specialties interview 10 places with 2-3 interview rooms. Just seems logical that this could be somewhat tapered if programs only interviewed 10-15 per spot….I highly doubt anywhere drops farther than needing to rank 10 people to fill a spot

Just to be clear, no one is forcing you to do 30 interviews. It sounds like you have more than enough options to create an interview schedule that's less stressful for you. Programs interviewing "30 per spot" doesn't make you any less culpable in "hoarding" interviews. If you're feeling guilty, that's something you need to work through.
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#5
OP what places are you referring to? I know places that interview <10 per spot. I can’t imagine many places are really interviewing 90-120 applicants. And the ones that are interviewing that many are probably bad programs that have to go really far down their rank list to match people
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#6
(11-16-2021, 11:36 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 10:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
Eh just venting. Feels crazy that we are all doing 30 interviews with interview days that include 14+ interview rooms while other specialties interview 10 places with 2-3 interview rooms. Just seems logical that this could be somewhat tapered if programs only interviewed 10-15 per spot….I highly doubt anywhere drops farther than needing to rank 10 people to fill a spot

This isn't really any different. We are interviewing a similar number of people. The difference is applicants are empowered to do more than the standard 15 or so by the ease of internet. Fwiw programs, even top ones, frequently drop pretty low on their rank lists. Because applicants are doing 30 plus interviews it will be even more pronounced this year.
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#7
(11-17-2021, 07:00 AM)Focus Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 11:36 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 10:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
Eh just venting. Feels crazy that we are all doing 30 interviews with interview days that include 14+ interview rooms while other specialties interview 10 places with 2-3 interview rooms. Just seems logical that this could be somewhat tapered if programs only interviewed 10-15 per spot….I highly doubt anywhere drops farther than needing to rank 10 people to fill a spot

This isn't really any different. We are interviewing a similar number of people. The difference is applicants are empowered to do more than the standard 15 or so by the ease of internet. Fwiw programs, even top ones, frequently drop pretty low on their rank lists. Because applicants are doing 30 plus interviews it will be even more pronounced this year.

I had previously joked about a 2-staged interview process "super match." Have a pre- or post- session at CNS in the fall where all programs and applicants attend. Programs have a booth to show their program and schedule mini-interviews for the next days. Each mini-interview is 10 minutes, and occur over 2-days. Thus, each program gets to meet in person with a total of 96 applicants. The program then takes these impressions back to their department and determines who to invite for an on-site interview/tour. This occurs at the programs discretion, but is financed by the program. Offers for employment occur on a rolling basis, similar to medical school, however an applicant can only accept one job at a time.

There really is not a perfect model for matching training programs with applicants. Neurosurgery is 7-years, and the average marriage in the US is only 8; quite the commitment. I can understand why there is a desire to meet the person, in person, because all sorts of interesting things come out during those days, which may benefit, or preclude, an applicant. The zoom sessions must be exhausting, but imagine having to travel and do the same plastic smile in person for 20-30 interviews.
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#8
(11-17-2021, 07:54 AM)socrates Wrote:
(11-17-2021, 07:00 AM)Focus Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 11:36 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 10:50 PM)Guest Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:57 PM)Guest Wrote: This is why I hoard interviews and plan to rank 30 programs. There is no reason that a program should be interviewing that many people per spot. Save the applicants and programs time by interviewing less.

Also no more of the “fit” bullshit. All you programs are the same “like family” shit and go on a hike or some shit once a year, might go out to dinner once a month, and all have vague hobbies your haven’t partaken in in years. I have yet to see a unique “culture” of any program. Spare me.

you sound pretty miserable for someone that hasn't even started yet. Doesn't bode well
Eh just venting. Feels crazy that we are all doing 30 interviews with interview days that include 14+ interview rooms while other specialties interview 10 places with 2-3 interview rooms. Just seems logical that this could be somewhat tapered if programs only interviewed 10-15 per spot….I highly doubt anywhere drops farther than needing to rank 10 people to fill a spot

This isn't really any different. We are interviewing a similar number of people. The difference is applicants are empowered to do more than the standard 15 or so by the ease of internet. Fwiw programs, even top ones, frequently drop pretty low on their rank lists. Because applicants are doing 30 plus interviews it will be even more pronounced this year.

I had previously joked about a 2-staged interview process "super match."  Have a pre- or post- session at CNS in the fall where all programs and applicants attend.  Programs have a booth to show their program and schedule mini-interviews for the next days.  Each mini-interview is 10 minutes, and occur over 2-days.  Thus, each program gets to meet in person with a total of 96 applicants.  The program then takes these impressions back to their department and determines who to invite for an on-site interview/tour.  This occurs at the programs discretion, but is financed by the program.  Offers for employment occur on a rolling basis, similar to medical school, however an applicant can only accept one job at a time.

There really is not a perfect model for matching training programs with applicants.  Neurosurgery is 7-years, and the average marriage in the US is only 8; quite the commitment.  I can understand why there is a desire to meet the person, in person, because all sorts of interesting things come out during those days, which may benefit, or preclude, an applicant.  The zoom sessions must be exhausting, but imagine having to travel and do the same plastic smile in person for 20-30 interviews.

That sounds ridiculous. So now we have to go to CNS and play speed dating with a couple hundred applicants for two days only to have to go travel and interview again anyway. Not really seeing the benefit to applicants with this.

The fact is the top 25 programs are all after the same people. We see the same group of faces in the interviews. The middle program wants the “stars” too so they Interview all those people PLUS a bunch of people that are more likely to have them at the top of their list (their best option). Those interviews you have the guy with 30 interviews who would probably rank 20 and then other guys with 5 interviews and would put that program #1. The program “falls” down the rank list because again, they all want the stars. The applicants do less “falling” because they can only rank a place they get an interview from. That’s why that stat about majority matching in top 3-4 is helpful and useless at the same time. If you interviewed at 3 places, duh.  

Pre COVID people still interviewed at 20 places. Idk why ppl are blaming virtual for this problem. It’s the consequence of having no application caps for applicants and no interview caps for programs. On top of the complete lack of transparency on program stats/preferences/history for applicants to filter themselves.
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#9
I've had the same "speed dating" idea that Socrates mentions but with one caveat - programs are limited in the number of on-site interviews that they get. Cap it at 40 or something. You might even have to cap the number that applicants do as well. Force some selection ahead of time.

People I know in the corporate world are floored by how this whole thing works. Even during MD/PhD interviews applicants get flown out and put up on the programs dime. We accept it for med school and residency interviews because we only have to do it once (hopefully) and don't care about the people coming behind us. It's the same reason that the resident union has never really taken off.
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#10
(11-17-2021, 12:46 PM)Guest Wrote: I've had the same "speed dating" idea that Socrates mentions but with one caveat - programs are limited in the number of on-site interviews that they get. Cap it at 40 or something. You might even have to cap the number that applicants do as well. Force some selection ahead of time.

People I know in the corporate world are floored by how this whole thing works. Even during MD/PhD interviews applicants get flown out and put up on the programs dime. We accept it for med school and residency interviews because we only have to do it once (hopefully) and don't care about the people coming behind us. It's the same reason that the resident union has never really taken off.

People say they want this, but then get upset when a program does not interview all their Sub-Is or a high number of total applicants.
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