(11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
Nobody said you had to do something unethical. And you should not.
(11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
(11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
I think a better point to be brought up about neurosurgery being a "game of who wants it more" is that it inherently biases it to those with more means to travel etc. Something I'm hoping, maybe naively, that programs take into consideration.
(11-22-2021, 03:14 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
I think a better point to be brought up about neurosurgery being a "game of who wants it more" is that it inherently biases it to those with more means to travel etc. Something I'm hoping, maybe naively, that programs take into consideration.
You know everyone used to have to travel for every single interview, right? If you don’t have the means to travel you literally couldn’t apply. Applicants doing second looks in a cycle where interviewing is now completely free doesn’t seem like a lot to ask for.. get those credit cards read and let the hunger games begin $$$
(11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
Loud and wrong. That’s actually not what I was talking about. I was referring nothing short but insisting a visit was the only way to be ranked highly. And as someone posted the rules of the match, implying that second look/visit is required to be considered is a match violation.
(11-22-2021, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:14 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
I think a better point to be brought up about neurosurgery being a "game of who wants it more" is that it inherently biases it to those with more means to travel etc. Something I'm hoping, maybe naively, that programs take into consideration.
You know everyone used to have to travel for every single interview, right? If you don’t have the means to travel you literally couldn’t apply. Applicants doing second looks in a cycle where interviewing is now completely free doesn’t seem like a lot to ask for.. get those credit cards read and let the hunger games begin $$$
So you are saying that the preclusion of a field based on medical student ability to pay is/was totally acceptable to you? That’s kind of the point of the problem.
(11-22-2021, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:14 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
I think a better point to be brought up about neurosurgery being a "game of who wants it more" is that it inherently biases it to those with more means to travel etc. Something I'm hoping, maybe naively, that programs take into consideration.
You know everyone used to have to travel for every single interview, right? If you don’t have the means to travel you literally couldn’t apply. Applicants doing second looks in a cycle where interviewing is now completely free doesn’t seem like a lot to ask for.. get those credit cards read and let the hunger games begin $$$
haha yeah that's the point: it was then and is still now biased to those with more means as you stated. The cost of travel for second looks or interviews may not be a lot to ask from you, which is great, but for other people it can make a significant difference in how and when rent, groceries, or other bills get paid for. I think we're roughly on the same page.
(11-22-2021, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:14 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 03:01 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:59 AM)Guest Wrote: (11-22-2021, 09:16 AM)Guest Wrote: Getting into neurosurgery is a game of who wants it more. If whatever bar is set and you don’t want to jump over it then neurosurgery is not for you. Move along.
That’s a stupid comment. Neurosurgeons especially should hold ethical standards in high regard. People that don’t think rules apply to them and also hold a lot of power are a dangerous combination, Christoper Duntsch.
What a ridiculous response. We're talking about whether or not we're allowed to ask about your family/heritage in an interview, not paralyzing people. Stop with the melodramatics.
I think a better point to be brought up about neurosurgery being a "game of who wants it more" is that it inherently biases it to those with more means to travel etc. Something I'm hoping, maybe naively, that programs take into consideration.
You know everyone used to have to travel for every single interview, right? If you don’t have the means to travel you literally couldn’t apply. Applicants doing second looks in a cycle where interviewing is now completely free doesn’t seem like a lot to ask for.. get those credit cards read and let the hunger games begin $$$
I'm just an applicant, but here's my take. If you want to produce the best neurosurgeons/scientists/etc that we're capable of producing, it makes sense to level the playing field as much as is practical. If one applicant comes from a school with a shitty financial aid department, and isn't able to take out enough additional loans to cover as many flights/hotels as another applicant, then we lose the ability to objectively distinguish between them on the metrics that actually matter. If one applicant didn't work as hard during medical school, and has lower scores/grades and less pubs, but their daddy funds their applications to 100+ programs and their travels to 30+ programs for second looks so they can mingle with residents/PDs and get a great spot, then the harder-working applicant with no family money who can only bootstrap an application to 50 programs and 20 second look visits is at a disadvantage, which is bad for the field of neurosurgery, since the person with more potential to be impactful in this field will end up at a worse program, or no program at all.
This isn't some woke snowflake bullshit, regardless of the fact that that's the interpretation of countless dinosaurs in this field. The fact is that when we level the playing field, whether that entails program-funded second-looks, capping second looks, etc, it seems that the result will be a stronger pool of matched applicants than would otherwise be the case.
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Nobody should be doing 20 second looks. Also bear in mind second looks can help or hurt you. Typically they do nothing. Do them for your own reassurance.
(11-23-2021, 06:37 AM)Focus Wrote: Nobody should be doing 20 second looks. Also bear in mind second looks can help or hurt you. Typically they do nothing. Do them for your own reassurance.
Agree. I think second looks should only be done if someone is truly interested in one particular program. Doing more than 1-2 would seem like a waste of your time and money. In my opinion, a second look may carry more weight at a smaller program than at most of the larger programs.
Applicant here. Several of the Top 20 all but insisted a visit with them was the way to stay at the top of their rankings/ be RTM in general. Several insisted coming asap rather than after interview season, which is just annoying.
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