Best Program

[MS3b]

Does anyone think there is really a #1 training program where anyone graduating has an advantage over other program grads based on name alone? Or do you think there is one best program for each applicant?

[Guest]

For the love of God, when does this ever stop. For the longest time, reasonable people tell you it's about fit. What kind of advantage? To go be a chair? To be the best technical surgeon? At least try to specify your question. Everybody knows about the programs that'll set you up for an academic career, and trying to specify which one would be #1 is the weirdest circle jerk in the field.

"Based on name alone" - That's what this whole discussion boils down to. People want to hear that once they get into a top 5/top 10 program they're set for a great career, but the fact is, every resident from the 50-100 ranked programs can outshine you in academic and technical abilities by putting in the effort during residency, and there are numerous examples out there. You most certainly have an edge in terms of career placement, but if you don't bust your ass during residency, you will go down. No matter where you match

[Guest]

Hear hear!!

[Guest]

MGH has a world-renown name. So does Mayo Rochester (not sure about the ones in FL or AZ but I hear those are coming up)

Columbia, Hopkins and Cornell are all top places. Stanford, USCF, Baylor.

Don't listen to the idiots here who will tell you that a bottom-tier program is equal to USCF as long as you put in the work. It depends who you learn from. Learning from and working with top surgeons is completely different than working with shit-tier people who do unindicated surgery for money (which is what I have read is pretty common at the low-tier places).

Even for research: Clinical trial design, study planning and exception are all completely different at the top places. You learn from the best and that makes a difference.

People here will tell you otherwise because they come from bottom-tier places and they want to make themselves feel good.

[Guest]

"(which is what I have read is pretty common at the low-tier places)" - I'm a high schooler or medical student who has no skin in the game. Most of the programs you list clearly indicate that you have no idea what you're talking about and just put out elite school names that any average Joe can list

Do your best and listen to the second post. Stop feeding your inferiority complex with the name game

[Guest]

(01-08-2022, 10:03 PM)Guest Wrote: For the love of God, when does this ever stop. For the longest time, reasonable people tell you it's about fit. What kind of advantage? To go be a chair? To be the best technical surgeon? At least try to specify your question. Everybody knows about the programs that'll set you up for an academic career, and trying to specify which one would be #1 is the weirdest circle jerk in the field.

"Based on name alone" - That's what this whole discussion boils down to. People want to hear that once they get into a top 5/top 10 program they're set for a great career, but the fact is, every resident from the 50-100 ranked programs can outshine you in academic and technical abilities by putting in the effort during residency, and there are numerous examples out there. You most certainly have an edge in terms of career placement, but if you don't bust your ass during residency, you will go down. No matter where you match

!!!!!!!

[Guest]

(01-09-2022, 12:10 AM)Guest Wrote: MGH has a world-renown name. So does Mayo Rochester (not sure about the ones in FL or AZ but I hear those are coming up)

Columbia, Hopkins and Cornell are all top places. Stanford, USCF, Baylor.

Don't listen to the idiots here who will tell you that a bottom-tier program is equal to USCF as long as you put in the work. It depends who you learn from. Learning from and working with top surgeons is completely different than working with shit-tier people who do unindicated surgery for money (which is what I have read is pretty common at the low-tier places).

Even for research: Clinical trial design, study planning and exception are all completely different at the top places. You learn from the best and that makes a difference.

People here will tell you otherwise because they come from bottom-tier places and they want to make themselves feel good.

Lol @ this ridiculous med student post.

Do you think faculty outside of the top 10, even the top 50, are "shit"? Wisconsin isn't in the top 50 you think Baskaya is a bad surgeon? You think Dan Resnick is out there doing unindicated surgery? Indiana not in the top 50 i bet that loser Cohen Gadol doesn't know what he's doing either. I could go on for days listing excellent faculty from places you think are "bottom tier". Judging by your post you probably don't know who these people are anyways.

Almost every program has nationally respected faculty that are great teachers. That's not reserved for the UCSF/MGHs of the world. And you thinking that just means you haven't spent any reasonable amount of time in the field and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Guest]

100% agree with the above post. I would ad the caveat though that Wisconsin and Indiana are solid middle of the pack programs that offer a great clinical experience despite not being research powerhouses and shouldn't be considered "bottom 50" programs.

[Guest]

Wisconsin is T25 easy if you control for location.

[Guest]

Agree with several points made above but at the same time any decent applicant will be able to find a "good fit" at at least a handful of programs. It's not unreasonable to consider that the opportunities for the same graduate (putting in the work wherever they go) may be different depending on if they graduate from program x, y, or z.