Realistic chances for an academic job?

[Guest]

So obviously the math doesn’t add up…everyone enters residency wanting to do academic skullbase or something and leaves doing private practice spine/endovasc because that’s where the jobs are. Like 1 faculty retires every few years while the same program will graduate 2-3 residents a year. What does it actually take to get a job in academia if only like 10% of graduating residents would be able to get a spot? Is it easier if I went into spine to get an academic job than if I went for functional? Is academics pretty much only feasible if you are coming out of a brand name program? Give it to me straight.

[Guest]

Academic jobs are really not that hard to get. There are a number being advertised at the moment on various neurosurgery job listings sites. Most people go into PP or hospital employed positions for the simple reason that most of those positions are better jobs, ie higher pay, better hours, better organization to work with, and less bureaucratic hassle

Most Med students entering residency talk a big game about academics because they have no idea what they’re talking about. Once they actually get into the field, their goals change

[Guest]

nowadays its far easier to get an academic job than a good PP job. Academia is run by SJWs and feminist and if you are a man--good luck. I know a senior attending who has to get approval from his boss--a younger woman--just to take a day off. Wow.

The only men I know who are in academics are because: Too lazy/incompetent for PP, are SJWs themselves, or just want to use the connections to get their kids in the medical school/residency. The 3rd reason, I have observed, is the most common.

[Guest]

I think the realistic answer here is that the good academic jobs are very very competitive while the bad academic jobs are in reality just a lot worse then the plethora of private/hospital employed jobs out there. Bad academic jobs just have the worse of everything ie pay, respect, hours, freedom, and autonomy.

Totally agree with the above posts though that from a quality of life and financial standpoint academics (at almost any level) just cannot compete to the private/employed option.

[Focus]

I agree your base pay will be lower if you do an academics but you have to factor in secondary income opportunities. If you have a strong academic standing, you can make a significant amount of money in speaker/advisory roles, IP generation, and industry collaboration. You may also be slightly more competitive for litigation consultation. You can do IP and industry as a PP too (in some ways it is easier/more potentially profitable) but the resources of an academic institution can be very helpful in terms of collaboration and validation. For example at my program we have a group who's job it is to take ideas from investigators and convert them into products or licenses with industry. Obviously they take a big chunk of the revenue in exchange but the reality is it takes a lot of the effort off of your hands. In fact, I recently had a patent submitted for a device that I probably spent 20 hours working on and they did the rest and are now building a prototype for me.

[Guest]

Is it feasible to go into PP for first few years while waiting for that “optimum” academic job opening? I guess will my PP history he a deterrent and looked upon poorly by academic centers looking to hire.

[Focus]

Feasible yes common no.

[Guest]

(05-31-2022, 02:57 PM)Focus Wrote: I agree your base pay will be lower if you do an academics but you have to factor in secondary income opportunities. If you have a strong academic standing, you can make a significant amount of money in speaker/advisory roles, IP generation, and industry collaboration. You may also be slightly more competitive for litigation consultation. You can do IP and industry as a PP too (in some ways it is easier/more potentially profitable) but the resources of an academic institution can be very helpful in terms of collaboration and validation. For example at my program we have a group who's job it is to take ideas from investigators and convert them into products or licenses with industry. Obviously they take a big chunk of the revenue in exchange but the reality is it takes a lot of the effort off of your hands. In fact, I recently had a patent submitted for a device that I probably spent 20 hours working on and they did the rest and are now building a prototype for me.

wow very fascinating. what are the opportunities for residents at such places? Can residents use these resources too? Thank you.

[Focus]

(06-01-2022, 02:02 AM)Guest Wrote:

(05-31-2022, 02:57 PM)Focus Wrote: I agree your base pay will be lower if you do an academics but you have to factor in secondary income opportunities. If you have a strong academic standing, you can make a significant amount of money in speaker/advisory roles, IP generation, and industry collaboration. You may also be slightly more competitive for litigation consultation. You can do IP and industry as a PP too (in some ways it is easier/more potentially profitable) but the resources of an academic institution can be very helpful in terms of collaboration and validation. For example at my program we have a group who's job it is to take ideas from investigators and convert them into products or licenses with industry. Obviously they take a big chunk of the revenue in exchange but the reality is it takes a lot of the effort off of your hands. In fact, I recently had a patent submitted for a device that I probably spent 20 hours working on and they did the rest and are now building a prototype for me.

wow very fascinating. what are the opportunities for residents at such places? Can residents use these resources too? Thank you.

Yes, and in fact, residents and medical students are often involved on such projects. I know a resident who is the majority stakeholder in a separate patent submission that he and I collaborated on when I was a resident as well. I don't know exactly how many of these programs that are around but I imagine there are quite a few at programs associated with a university. Whether or not a given department knows about it or utilizes it is the real issue. This is especially true in some of the traditional "Ivory Tower" academic programs. Being involved in such activities requires a certain coziness with industry since from a university's standpoint, licensing is the easiest way to turn a profit. There is also the lingering concern that a resident might leave the program to found a startup which does happen from time to time.

[Guest]

(06-01-2022, 04:42 AM)Focus Wrote:

(06-01-2022, 02:02 AM)Guest Wrote:

(05-31-2022, 02:57 PM)Focus Wrote: I agree your base pay will be lower if you do an academics but you have to factor in secondary income opportunities. If you have a strong academic standing, you can make a significant amount of money in speaker/advisory roles, IP generation, and industry collaboration. You may also be slightly more competitive for litigation consultation. You can do IP and industry as a PP too (in some ways it is easier/more potentially profitable) but the resources of an academic institution can be very helpful in terms of collaboration and validation. For example at my program we have a group who's job it is to take ideas from investigators and convert them into products or licenses with industry. Obviously they take a big chunk of the revenue in exchange but the reality is it takes a lot of the effort off of your hands. In fact, I recently had a patent submitted for a device that I probably spent 20 hours working on and they did the rest and are now building a prototype for me.

wow very fascinating. what are the opportunities for residents at such places? Can residents use these resources too? Thank you.

Yes, and in fact, residents and medical students are often involved on such projects. I know a resident who is the majority stakeholder in a separate patent submission that he and I collaborated on when I was a resident as well. I don't know exactly how many of these programs that are around but I imagine there are quite a few at programs associated with a university. Whether or not a given department knows about it or utilizes it is the real issue. This is especially true in some of the traditional "Ivory Tower" academic programs. Being involved in such activities requires a certain coziness with industry since from a university's standpoint, licensing is the easiest way to turn a profit. There is also the lingering concern that a resident might leave the program to found a startup which does happen from time to time.

Are these device patents? And are you in endo vascular or spine? I am interested in device development but not sure how to get my foot into the door as a resident