TOP10 Residency Program by Volume

[Guest]

Which residency programs have the highest volume. I was surprised to learn that Yale, Brown and MGH don't have that much volume

[Guest]

Barrow, Pitt, Jefferson, Mayo MN, Miami, Buffalo (including endovascular), UCSF, Ohio State, UW, Emory.

[Guest]

(07-06-2022, 02:20 PM)Guest Wrote: Barrow, Pitt, Jefferson, Mayo MN, Miami, Buffalo (including endovascular), UCSF, Ohio State, UW, Emory.

how does Jeff pull that much with temple, allegeny and penn nearby ?

[Guest]

This question is hard to answer since things change over the years, and the volume a program states that they do each year does not necessarily equate to the resident's actual operative experience. Also, many programs will cite their satellite hospitals' case logs as # of cases done annually when residents do not staff that hospital. Some programs will fudge the numbers further by including stuff like GKRS. Some include a massive number of endovascular cases that are done by their 3-4 fellows with little resident involvement.

In my opinion, look at programs in large cities that serve a big catchment radius, especially if they are the only player in town (i.e. UW, Miami, UTSW type places). If there are several resident training programs in the same city, that means that a) its a big city that needs it but b) cases can be dwindled a little bit. I think the most important factor is the resident hands on experience, which means look for busy County/trauma centers and to a lesser extent VA hospitals as those historically let the residents do more. There will be exceptions to this rule, sure, but its a good rule of thumb.

[Guest]

Does anyone have actual numbers and a source?

[Focus]

Some publish it in their annual reports. Others show graphs at interviews. The big hitters do 8-10k but everyone tries to fudge their numbers I'm sure.

[Guest]

How does one even get to know this actually ? I know Pitt prides itself in that their residents are done with the ACGME requirements by PGY4. any similar program achieves this feat ? Furthermore, are 4 per year residencies traditionally busier than 3 or 2 per year ? Can that be used as a surrogate for residency involvement

[harveyrip]

Self published annual volume / approved # of residents

Barrow 8k+ / 28 = 285
Pitt 9k+ / 28 = 321
Jeff ? / 25 = ?
Mayo 5k~ / 28 = 178
Miami 5k+ / 21 = 238
Buffalo 13k+* / 21 = 619*
UCSF ? / 21 = ?
OSU 7.1k+ / 21 = 338
UW ? / 21 = ?
Emory ? / 28 = ?

*includes endovascular

[drstrange]

Every program has ways that they inflate their numbers - including endo, GKRS, EVDs, etc. Here's as a good a source as any regarding trends:
https://thejns.org/focus/view/journals/n...le-pE6.xml

There's no perfect method for adjusting what a place tells you and the reality of what their training volume is. Maybe 2/3 of what they tell you on interview day? I don't know. If you really want to know, ask one of the senior residents what their case log count is at the interview dinner. I had applicants ask me and I had no problem showing them.

Things to also keep in mind - that T4-pelvis deformity case only counts for one entry in your log. But you're going to get much more out of it than doing five microdisc cases.

Interviews are like dating - there is a lot of misdirection occurring on both sides. If you are going to rank a place in your top 5, try and find someone who did a subI there and get some real information.

[Guest]

You have to prove to the ACGME that you have sufficient volume in every area required for graduation to maintain and expand your cohort, so yes, a 4/year program will generally be busier than a 2 or 3/year program. Places that attract complex cases like big skull base tumors, complex bypasses, and deformities whacks may have lower volume on the books, but will also be busy since those cases will suck up the residents for a whole day or two.

When you interview, see how many cases the graduating residents have done compared (obviously taking into consideration which fellowships they did). That's the best way to gauge volume imo. It doesn't matter if your hospital system does 7k cases system-wide if residents rotate at 2 sites and graduate with 1200 cases that lack complexity.