Stanford?

[Guest]

What happened at Stanford? It looks like they are missing a PGY-1 and PGY-4, anyone know what happened to them?

[Guest]

is stanford malignant? lose 2 residents in a span of a few months?

[Guest]

(01-29-2023, 03:57 PM)Guest Wrote: is stanford malignant? lose 2 residents in a span of a few months?

Wow, I was actually classmates with that PGY-1 during medical school (not the same year as him). Dude was a great guy. In terms of how malignant Stanford is a as program, you can grab hints in Paul Kalanithi's books.

“As an intern in the first year of residency, one is little more than a paper pusher against a backdrop of life and death—though, even then, the workload is enormous. My first day in the hospital, the chief resident said to me, “Neurosurgery residents aren’t just the best surgeons—we’re the best doctors in the hospital. That’s your goal. Make us proud.” The chairman, passing through the ward: “Always eat with your left hand. You’ve got to learn to be ambidextrous.” One of the senior residents: “Just a heads-up—the chief is going through a divorce, so he’s really throwing himself into his work right now. Don’t make small talk with him.” The outgoing intern who was supposed to orient me but instead just handed me a list of forty-three patients: “The only thing I have to tell you is: they can always hurt you more, but they can’t stop the clock.” And then he walked away.I didn’t leave the hospital for the first two days, but before long, the impossible-seeming, day-killing mounds of paperwork were only an hour’s work. Still, when you work in a hospital, the papers you file aren’t just papers[…]”

Of course, you can just say that is just how neurosurgery residency is in general. All I can say is that during my time at UCSF, people were very very nice.

[Guest]

So... a few comments about the above... that book is almost a decade old now and I can't imagine reflects the current experience. As someone who also trained in California... and not to be disrespectful, but lets just say not too many people talk about how hard the Stanford residents have it. They aren't necessarily known for getting worked hard there...

People can leave neurosurgery for a bunch of reasons. In my time in residency, I have seen people leave for various reasons: alternative career interests (consulting, start ups), family issues (unexpected death in family changing life goals, spouse issues where a decision was made to leave to save a marriage). There are SO many reasons someone can decide to redirect from a 7-8 year residency/fellowship path in your 30s. So don't be concerned that people left. Find out to the best that you can why they left, and see what level did leave (if you fire a PGY5-7, sure I would ask questions), but my advice to medical students is don't be turned off by a program just because an intern is no longer there.

[Guest]

I agree with the poster above. However, just reading further into the book (which very well may be outdated), you can read the following:

“The schedule took a toll. As residents, we were working as much as one hundred hours a week; though regulations officially capped our hours at eighty-eight, there was always more work to be done. My eyes watered, my head throbbed, I downed energy drinks at two A.M. At work, I could keep it together, but as soon as I walked out of the hospital, the exhaustion would hit me. I staggered through the parking lot, often napping in my car before driving the fifteen minutes home to bed.Not all residents could stand the pressure. One was simply unable to accept blame or responsibility. He was a talented surgeon, but he could not admit when he’d made a mistake. I sat with him one day in the lounge as he begged me to help him save his career.“All you have to do,” I said, “is look me in the eye and say, ‘I’m sorry. What happened was my fault, and I won’t let it happen again.’ ”“But it was the nurse who—”“No. You have to be able to say it and mean it. Try again.”
“But—”“No. Say it.”This went on for an hour before I knew he was doomed. The stress drove another resident out of the field entirely; she elected to leave for a less taxing job in consulting.Others would pay even higher prices.”

So one can't deny that there is some history of work hour violations and residents getting burnt out to the point of leaving. At the same time Paul might be dramatizing things for the sake of his book.

[Guest]

This Paul fellow seems like a real piece of work. The fact is that neurosurgeons are on the top .1% of the medical field hierarchy, top 2-3% of physicians. So in any field to get to the top you need to work hard, in banking, law, sports, entertainment the top guys are all putting in the same hours as neurosurgeons. if this complainer wanted he can quit anytime and go into family medicine or IM, and give his spot to a more worthy candidate.

Stanford and the Ivy-league seems full of these entitled idiots. Just being surrounding by these fools would cause me to quit.

[Guest]

(01-30-2023, 04:33 PM)Guest Wrote: This Paul fellow seems like a real piece of work. The fact is that neurosurgeons are on the top .1% of the medical field hierarchy, top 2-3% of physicians. So in any field to get to the top you need to work hard, in banking, law, sports, entertainment the top guys are all putting in the same hours as neurosurgeons. if this complainer wanted he can quit anytime and go into family medicine or IM, and give his spot to a more worthy candidate.

Stanford and the Ivy-league seems full of these entitled idiots. Just being surrounding by these fools would cause me to quit.

You can work hard and not be subject to a malignant culture. Also, Dr. Kalanithi is dead...He does, however, convey an arrogant personality in his book. Therefore, I can't fully disagree with you.

[Guest]

As someone who did residency at a smaller, no-name program, and then did a fellowship at a heavily academic name-brand recognized program, I would concur with the above. There are a huge number of spoiled whiny idiots at the academic places compared to operative heavy smaller programs. The residents at the academic program were immensely whiny about things that were fairly routine at the smaller program (and not even scut, just unfortunate run-of-the-mill neurosurgery work). They were also much less surgically skilled compared to their respective PGY colleagues at the smaller program

[Guest]

As someone who is at one of these high powered academic programs, I concur with this. It feels like some of my older MD PhD coresidents from brand name places find themselves to be too good to do an honest day of work. As a result, there is an annoying whiny culture where people do not chip in to do their part. Sometimes I wish I went somewhere with less divas.

[Guest]

Why do I feel like the previous 2 posters are the exact same person...