Enfolded Fellows - How r they viewed?

[Guest]

R they looked at differently than post-residency fellowship?

Does it differ by fellowship like spine (where u don't really need a fellowship) vs vascular?

[Guest]

I did an enfolded tumor fellowship... initially attempted to look for cranial/tumor focused jobs without going on to do a post-residency fellowship, and was essentially laughed at. Went on to do a proper post-residency skull base fellowship. YYMV

[Guest]

Normally ok for endovascular and spine, not valued enough to get a job for tumor

[Guest]

Only the marketers care so they can tell referring doctors that you are fellowship trained. No surgeon takes an enfolded fellowship seriously as a fellowship with VERY few exceptions.

[Guest]

It will not be considered a real fellowship by anyone that matters, unfortunately. I myself completely both an enfolded and post-grad fellowship, and the only one anyone cared about was the post-grad one.

[Guest]

Even spine people know what the real fellowships are. Enfolded fellowships are good to learn and not waste time doing some research project you hate but agree that anybody who is in the know would not consider them the same.

[Guest]

I think it depends on your home program and on the fellowship. A bunch of the Barrow folks enfold the Uribe fellowship, and apart from not being able to take cranial attending call (because you're not BE), it's the exact same experience (same 12 month window). If anything, the enfolded BNI guys had a better relationship with him and actually had more autonomy earlier on. Several have gone on to get pretty good academic jobs with no post-grad fellowship.

[Guest]

I don’t think the issue being discussed is the actual quality of the training you might or might not receive. I’m sure there are enfolded fellowships that train as well or better than a post-grad fellowship. I myself think I learned more from my enfolded spine fellowship than my post-grad fellowship. But the question posed is the perception of these enfolded fellowships, which I think most neurosurgeons would agree that enfolded fellowships are deemed to be “below” post grad fellowships, for whatever reason.

[Guest]

Also dramatically depends on when during your residency you did you enfolded fellowship
A PGY-3 doing an "enfolded fellowship" is a complete joke, you cannot learn the advanced techniques if you don't even understand the basics.
Vs. doing the enfolded fellowship as a 6th or 7th year

[Guest]

I think any pre-chief year fellowship is suspect. The single exception is the diagnostic year of endovascular. The community has generally accepted endo as viable in an enfolded format if the treatment year is later. I think that there would be many fewer neurosurgeons pursing endo if it were not and that would be a detriment to the field. Many people respect an enfolded spine if done after a chief year at a CAST-approved location. For other areas - tumor, functional, and peds, the utility of going somewhere new and seeing a different perspective is valuable. You will also gain new contacts and a professional network that you will benefit from. Only you can decide if that is worth a year of your life and the loss in income.