Chances? Backup Plan? Dual-apply vs SOAP?

[J.A.D.]

M3, Step 2: 248, Step 1:Pass. 2 Honors (Psych and Peds), the rest High Pass. I'm in a school ranked T20-T30. Around 7 pubs (3 reviews, 3 retrospective cohorts, 1 basic science that is being submitted in the next month), various authorship roles on these. 

I've seen PD's on twitter comment about how brutal the match can be, want to be realistic and develop a backup plan. Neurosurgery is the dream and everything else is a job. Can anyone comment on their specific goal-oriented advice/recommendations. I don't know much at all about SOAP/Pre-lims/dual applying or other options. Would like some insight from neurosurgery folks and what specialty to pivot to, how, and when to do so. 

thanks

[Guest]

Routinely interview, do you have a home program, any mentors? I wouldnt say your stats are bad enough to make neurosurgery a pipe dream

[Guest]

Yes home program. My mentor is a younger attending. I'm happy to do the research year to better my app.
What can I work on? In my case, is it better to just go all in or dual apply? If dual apply, what specialty? Gen Surg?

[Guest]

Never dual apply neurosurgery, especially with your stats. It looks bad for middle of the pack applicants. It looks like you don’t know what you want to do if you do that. Tbh that is what it sounds like on the forum too. If you convey that indecision on interviews, you are dead in the water. Everyone knows the one who doesn’t really know if they want neurosurgery tends to drop out. Then, you have a hole that needs to be filled by someone else who quit somewhere else, got fired, or is a new intern that’s starting from scratch.

You’ll make programs think they should just pick someone who is all in to avoid that if you dual apply.

[Guest]

As someone who reviews residency applications a lot, I wouldn’t even know where to look to see if someone is dual applying, I wouldn’t know unless the OP told me. Maybe other reviewers are more savvy, but the packets we attendings get are enormous, and we’re busy, believe me we don’t go through them with a fine tooth comb.

Ur stats are ok. Truthfully, most the step scores on the apps I review are almost twenty points higher at least. Ur publications are quite solid though. As for top 20-30 school, that means nothing to most reviewers, any neurosurgeon can tell you those ranking lists are meaningless. Med students on this forum seem to think their home program will impress reviewers, it generally will not, I’m sorry to say.

I don’t think you need to dual apply, but I would compare ur stats to last years average and see where u land. Probably the best thing you can do is choose ur away rotation wisely, impress them, and get rockstar letters.

[Focus]

I also am unaware of a way to detect dual applications any more than knowing what programs you applied to.

[Guest]

Hi Doc, thanks for replying. and thanks for the poster that followed you.

Appreciate the honesty retep scores and school ranking. Looking at the 2022 data of matriculant MDs: Step 2 252, 6.6 pubs, 25.5 research items.

My question for you & this forum is on choosing aways wisely. I'll reach out to my mentor for advice but what would be your recommendations?

I am naive in the process and unsure exactly of what to look for in Sub-I's specifically. I don't have any major preferences aside from perhaps working in a program where I could leverage my fluency (Spanish/Korean). Also if there's anything specifically you look for in good sub-i's would appreciate it. I've come to realize a lot of surgery is "show don't tell", keeping your head down, and working hard.

- thanks

[Guest]

If you’re a lower stat applicant (~240 step 2, 30 publications) coming from a lower tier school (unranked), is it better to do away rotations at the top programs to get those strong letters or is it better to do rotations at mid tier programs where you have a realistic shot of matching?

[Guest]

The latter. Not even a question. Even these mid tier programs will often have chairs who are decently well known, and at the very least they'll consider you for their program.

[Guest]

Just for clarification because it’s always misleading on this site, y’all have a very warped idea of “publications”. Publications are stuff I can pubmed with a pubmed ID. Research experiences are whatever you decide… a 2 month stent in a lab over a summer where no paper came from it, database entry. Many applicants will put they have 30 publications when in reality the did the same poster case report 10 times. Reality is most applicants have a handful of papers, mostly clinical or case series where they are first or middle author. Very rarely are there applicants with 30 real publications (they exist however, usually stats guys) or big impactful first author papers (thesis papers from PhD). Please do not be discouraged by applicants boasting their massive number of “publications”. We see right through it. It honestly kind of hurts the applicant to try to embellish.