Didacticfailure
Unregistered
Hello. I did very poorly my first two years (some Cs, rest Bs) and a low 22x step 1. Since then I've done my PhD, with 7 first author basic research papers (no cell/nature) Inc one in science translational and 4 in neuro journals, multiple other co authorship, and 7 other papers from other experiences from.my gap and first year. All are research articles except for 3 review papers.
I'm in 3rd year now and have been networking like crazy and trying to bump up my publications with NSG faculty. Assuming I do well on Step 2 and clerkships do I have a chance especially for academic and research oriented programs? I'm trying to decide if it's even worth putting myself through the SubIs and competitive match if I have no chance. I'm considering dual applying if I go for it but I'm concerned it will look bad if I do a non surgical specialty as a back up.
I think you could match, it's impossible to say whether or not you'd get into a strong academic or research program. If you get a strong Step 2 score and/or have networked well, you definitely could get into a solid program. It also depends what med school you go to and how much respect it garners. If you really want to do neurosurgery, I wouldn't dual apply.
Just make sure you sub-i and focus on research heavy programs. This application is a huge red flag for operative heavy programs and they probably won't have interest.
Despite what the above poster said, your med school will not matter. No program will care. Ur step score is barely average, but u could potentially make up for it with a very good step 2. I’ll be honest, my program is a solid middle tier operative program, and truth be told we would not interview u with that step score, not even as an MD/PhD. The truth is that there are a fair number of MD/PhD applicants, or just applicants with good research, and most have better scores than that. If you have good connections, they might be able to get you a good spot at a reputable program, but that’s probably the only thing that will get you where u want to be. You have an uphill battle ahead of you, against vastly better applicants than you. Sorry man.
didacticfailure
Unregistered
thanks everyone. appreciate the honesty.
wasn't sure how much programs would care about pre-clinical or step 1 score now that it's P/F but it seems like there's still a good amount of emphasis on these? also can you help define operative vs research programs. I get the gist but I mean are we talking like lower tier places vs research powerhouses? In which case, it would seem I might have a better chance at a research powerhouse which ironically will likely be a higher ranked program? I had a list I was putting together and I broke it up based off research emphasis.
a list of schools I'm interested in include (Included some of my notes here, all should be "mid tier/state" with research emphasis). Was thinking I could maybe make the cut if I do well in my last 2 years of medical school for these programs. Obviously Ivy League and other top names like Duke/Hopkins are out of the picture here.
Top schools, possible good fits
UMiami
U Washington - 2 years elective
UFlorida - 2 years elective
UVA - 2 years elective
UCSD - 2 years elective
UW Madison
UIC
Ohio State - 2 years research
George Washington - enfolded vascular, 2 years research in PG5 and PG7
Georgetown/NIH - 2 years research
Umass - 2 years research
U rochester - 2 years research
Other schools, potential fits, but more operative/less research
U of Utah - PG4 research, PG6 enfolded fellwship
Arizona - 1 year research, year enfolded fellowship
Thomas Jefferson - 1 year research + year 7 year enfolded fellowship
OHSU - 1 year research
Vtech - 12-18 months research
Albany - 1 year research, enfolded fellowship support
UC davis, 18th months elecive, enfolded fellowship support
lower on my list, Operative (minimal research, have to choose between fellowship and research)
INOVA FairFax (accepts DO, 1 year of research only)
Loyola - 1 year of research only, no enfolded fellowship
UColorado - 1 year research support no enfolded fellowship
UC irvine - 1 year research OR enfolded fellowship
Rush, Carolinas, UC Riverside, Temple --> no research support
thanks everyone. appreciate the honesty.
wasn't sure how much programs would care about pre-clinical or step 1 score now that it's P/F but it seems like there's still a good amount of emphasis on these? also can you help define operative vs research programs. I get the gist but I mean are we talking like lower tier places vs research powerhouses? In which case, it would seem I might have a better chance at a research powerhouse which ironically will likely be a higher ranked program? I had a list I was putting together and I broke it up based off research emphasis.
a list of schools I'm interested in include (Included some of my notes here, all should be "mid tier/state" with research emphasis). Was thinking I could maybe make the cut if I do well in my last 2 years of medical school for these programs. Obviously Ivy League and other top names like Duke/Hopkins are out of the picture here.
Top schools, possible good fits
UMiami
U Washington - 2 years elective
UFlorida - 2 years elective
UVA - 2 years elective
UCSD - 2 years elective
UW Madison
UIC
Ohio State - 2 years research
George Washington - enfolded vascular, 2 years research in PG5 and PG7
Georgetown/NIH - 2 years research
Umass - 2 years research
U rochester - 2 years research
Other schools, potential fits, but more operative/less research
U of Utah - PG4 research, PG6 enfolded fellwship
Arizona - 1 year research, year enfolded fellowship
Thomas Jefferson - 1 year research + year 7 year enfolded fellowship
OHSU - 1 year research
Vtech - 12-18 months research
Albany - 1 year research, enfolded fellowship support
UC davis, 18th months elecive, enfolded fellowship support
lower on my list, Operative (minimal research, have to choose between fellowship and research)
INOVA FairFax (accepts DO, 1 year of research only)
Loyola - 1 year of research only, no enfolded fellowship
UColorado - 1 year research support no enfolded fellowship
UC irvine - 1 year research OR enfolded fellowship
Rush, Carolinas, UC Riverside, Temple --> no research support
Does med school not matter because OP is an MD/PhD? Or is that a general statement? Feel like that is contradictory to general knowledge of the process
You will either match at a top research program or not match at all. Would double down on MGH-esque programs.
do sub-Is at research focused programs.
Apply everywhere.
(04-16-2024, 02:51 PM)Guest Wrote: Does med school not matter because OP is an MD/PhD? Or is that a general statement? Feel like that is contradictory to general knowledge of the process
The problem with OP is not only does he have bad grades, but a bad Step score as well. We don't care about a grade here or there, but this is a trend, bottom quartile + bad test scores is a bad combination.
Operative heavy programs are already wary of MD/PhDs because they don't typically fit well, so combine that with these grades OP is unlikely to get a look from those types. Then for the top research programs with a lot of lab focus (Mayo, Columbia, UCSF, Cleveland Clinic, MGH) that typically like MD/PhDs, they are very competitive. Everyone looking at those programs will have the same number and quality of pubs as OP, and will be top of their class with 250+ step scores. So your only chance at those is an amazing Sub-i performance
OP's best chance in my opinion are research heavy programs that are classically less competitive (I don't mean bad programs, just not top 5): Stanford, Yale, Michigan, Mayo Jax, UNC, West Virginia, Florida are just a few off the top of my head.
OP here
Interesting.. why are Yale, Stanford, and Michigan considered less competitive in those list. I figured those would be up there along the likes of the other schools you mentioned. Stanford would be a dream for me.
Also just to clarify, I have a poor STEP 1 not a STEP 2 score. I'm a bit surprised that it seems this important especially when most of the non md phds i'll be competing with will have a pass/fail score. Would a poor step 1 really matter that much assuming my clerkships/step 2 are up to par?
OP again- To the poster who said I should "double down on MGH-esque" programs... what exactly do you mean? MGH as in Mass General Hospital? I would have assumed that would also be a very competitive program based on name alone. I'm new to these forums and feel like I'm missing something here with the recommendations since some of these (e.g. stanford, MGH) are what I would assume to be highly competitive institutions that I have no chance at.
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