Programs don't fill after a departure because all of neurosurgery is risk averse - if I as a PD can have adequate coverage for call and cases while playing a man down, why risk hiring someone who's already demonstrated issues with residency, whatever they may be.
To the OP, I would just take a step back and really focus on (sorry to sound like a hippy) but the 'why'? You're saying you want to get an MBA and found a startup while actively looking for a doorway back into a profession you've been forced to leave. Startups dont get founded in a year, while people do two other things. Once they're founded, they'll be a time sink while you continue residency. The only people I know who were successful doing that as residents had to take leaves of absence to shepard their start-ups. So again, as a PD, if I see you were forced to resign and then you got an MBA and focused on startups, I would be thinking 'how dedicated are they really if the response to professionalism issues was to switch to a different profession?'
I think overall what I'm trying to say is that if you TRULY want back in, it's likely going to take longer than a year and its going to take working as an unaccredited fellow or research fellow with another program until they trust you enough to either match you themselves or write letters that can speak to personal improvements you've made in response to what happened.
These are only my opinions, and I'm sure there's not ONLY one way to get back in. I think at this juncture the most important thing to ask yourself is 'do I want it so bad I'm willing to risk X number of years going down a path that may ultimately be fruitless'.
I hope my rambling was helpful, if not, I'm sorry!
lets say 20 vacancies a year, only 4 will seek to fill, and of those 3 will go to foreign graduated attending with no history of issues and ready and able to staff rooms
This sucks. Its not fair. I feel lost and hopeless. I don't know what to do. I feel like nothing I can do will work to get back in. What about a foreign residency? India, Africa, Canada, Australia, Mexico? I don't care about money, I like just am fascinated with the brain, spine and neurosurgical patients.
Sometimes PDs are willing to help you slide into another specialty. Check find a resident and residentswap for opportunities, and can try agreeing with your PD to tell another specialty nsgy wasnt for you, and are looking for a different opportunity. the easiest time to transfer is while you are still employed. in future you might have to re enter the match.
I am an unfortunate case myself, have been trying for years - it is bleak and not easy. It is hard to find another specialty too, and I may ultimately just re enter the match.
Or yeah, you could look into going to India or Africa, but it might be more pleasant to just be a doctor in the US.
Just trying to help you out here - but you might consider moving quickly and trying to find a position in a specialty in the state you are currently in. You have a license in this state already. At this point this late in the year, it is rather difficult if not impossible to get a license in time for a July 1 start date. In addition, people with disciplinary action or forced to resign on their history have to go through an extensive process at each state medical board to get licensing to practice. This can take 3-6 months sometimes. Your PD will fill out forms stating why you were fired, you will also have to submit written explanation. Your PD will have to fill out a form that specifically asks about these derogatory action for the rest of your career unfortunately any time you want to get licensed in a state to practice. The nightmare never ends
I would consider emailing all programs in your state (perhaps anesthesia or radiology) for PGY2 openings, you might get lucky
I am truly sorry, this is a rough and awful process, speaking from unsuccessful experience
I’m considering radiology orthopedics anesthesia EM. How does one get a spot in these? Won’t these programs just have the same view as trying to switch neurosurgery programs?
Orthopedics no way.
Radiology, anesthesia, EM is doable but you need to move quickly. These programs you can tell you decided that neurosurgery was not for you, and try to find a PGY2 position (or pgy1 for EM). You can say I realized I did not want to be a neurosurgeon for the rest of my life, etc.
Same process, you need to email all the PDs, starting with your home state due to the licensing factor. You should try to get rec letters from attendings you have good relationships that can write positive letters and you could include them as references or include their letters
If you're able to find something it will be good because you saved yourself a year in the next chapter of your life, vs an upcoming year of depression and no work (trust me it is horrible to have no job, truly soul crushing)
this is all not to say you should not keep pursuing nsgy because it is impossible (people get lucky, things happen, sometimes people just re enter the match and start from pgy1 too) - but thats a decision you should make.
knowing what i know now about the landscape, yes indeed, i do wish i pursued other fields properly to secure something
(05-19-2020, 10:56 PM)Guest Wrote: I’m considering radiology orthopedics anesthesia EM. How does one get a spot in these? Won’t these programs just have the same view as trying to switch neurosurgery programs?
No it's completely different. In neurosurgery you're damaged goods. You were essentially forced out of a residency program for unknown reasons, and everyone will immediately reach out to your program to get their side of the story. You're a massive risk to any place - how do they know you won't piss someone off there as well?
In a different specialty you're just some guy who decided neurosurgery wasn't right for them and is looking for a career switch. People do that all the time (usually for lifestyle reasons) and often get excellent programs in radiology, anesthesia, etc.
What about pre residency fellowship? Shows dedication and a chance to shine. Anyone know of these programs and match chances?
Posts: 1
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation:
0
I agree 100% with everything people are saying on this thread!
Ultimately you are still a doctor, and IF you can find something you enjoy outside of neurosurgery, it may be best to pursue it. Whether it be the lifestyle of EM, being able to do neuroradiology via (Neurology or Radiology route), or taking a general surgery position and being able to still be in the OR, it will save you some time, money and pain.
If you can't imagine doing anything else besides neurosurgery, then get ready for a rough ride. Speaking from personal experience, we all have Scarlet Letters on us now which are very difficult to get rid of. Briefly, I was placed on academic probation during my intern year after making some mistakes and getting on the bad side of one of the chief residents. After successfully completing my remediation my program director still decided not to renew my contract, despite having good evals. They told me this on June 1 and I was devastated. Of course I was not able to find a position in a months time, and actually ended up jobless for 6 months. I was finally able to secure a post-doctoral research fellowship in a Neurosurgery Department. It wasn't able to do any clinical work, but I kept my head down, published a lot, and went to AANS/CNS. After 1.5 years of that I was finally able to secure a pre-residency fellowship position. Again, I kept my head down, performed well, went to resident teaching conferences, continued research and publishing, and went to AANS/CNS. During this time I unsuccessfully applied through the match twice, and was unable to secure an open junior level position. I did however find an open clinical fellowship position which I have been in the last year. Again, I kept my head down, went to teaching conferences, published, went to national meetings, but was still unable to secure any of the open junior level positions around the country. Luckily, with the amount of clinical time and experience I had accrued, along with the backing of faculty from my current institution, I was able to secure another clinical fellowship which will be starting this summer. The future is still not clear, but I finally feel like I have a foot in the door and that not everyone sees this Scarlet Letter anymore. All in all I have been at it for 5 years. The residents from my year group are about to be chiefs and it pains me to know that I have many many years left in training. BUT, I can't imagine doing anything else in medicine, and I'm happy that I never stopped pursuing Neurosurgery.
If you decide to continue down this path, the KEY is to find a faculty member that will vouch for you, preferably one with a well known name in Neurosurgery. Mine has had my back since I was let go, has called numerous programs on my behalf, and motivated me when times where tough. On top of that you need work your ass off to tip the scales back in your favor. The weight of being fired or not having a contract renewed is immense. To counter this you need to published a lot and impress faculty with your work ethic, drive, knowledge and skill. Unfortunately, the last thing you need is a bit of luck. Timing is everything for us, finding open positions is tough, and finding someone who is willing to take a chance on you is even tougher. In the end I am still doing what I love, going into work everyday happy and with a smile on my face because I get to take care of patients and operate. Its a long, hard, and frustrating road, but for me it will be worth it in the end.
Hope this helps...DM me with any questions!
|
