MS3 Clinical Grades

[Guest]

(12-04-2022, 03:14 PM)Guest Wrote: While the resident here claims otherwise--and perhaps his program is unique--numbers do matter. I spoke to a few PDs from well-reputed neurosurgery departments and all have told me so.

Everyone knows that publications as a med student are mostly BS, but they are a good proxy for determination, time-management, statistical and writing skills, analytical skills, ability to collaborate, etc. Same for USMLE scores--everyone knows memorizing obscure facts of diseases is useless, but its a good proxy for intelligence, dedication, drive, etc. Being able to put your findings out to the community is important, too.

In my class we have kids who are doing meta-analyses and UWORLD on Fridays and those who are drinking on the weekends. Who would a decent PD prefer?

You can cope by saying PDs prefer people who don't put too much effort, who like to skid by, who are fun etc. But my own observations suggests otherwise.

If you don't have solid USLME and publications, good luck because you will need it in today's environment. Neurosurgeons are the best of the best and deep down everyone wants to become one.

Agreed. Most med students pubs are bullshit unless you're a MD/Phd. But that's because the MD/Phd was given 4 years to work on 1-2 projects 24/7. If I were to start a program, I'd take two prolific MDs for volume and 1 MD/Phd for very high quality work.

[Focus]

I've been reviewing applications for a decade. They aren't that much better. Similar grades/aoa statuses. Maybe one or two more pubs on average. Same rate of genuinely good LORs  

If anything obsession with the the above advice has made applications more difficult to review because it just page after page of generic stuff. That buries the interesting achievements. I want to talk to the person who founded a start up or competed nationally in body building. Your research is unlikely to make me tolerate you slowing down my cases and forcing me to edit my OR dictations when I find out you didn't do a subq closure like I told you to, but having interesting points of view based on diverse life experiences might just do it. Excellence is relative and has multiple forms. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to publish because, yes, to an extent publication amount matters, but it isn't a linear scale.

[Guest]

(12-04-2022, 10:58 PM)Focus Wrote: I've been reviewing applications for a decade. They aren't that much better. Similar grades/aoa statuses. Maybe one or two more pubs on average. Same rate of genuinely good LORs  

If anything obsession with the the above advice has made applications more difficult to review because it just page after page of generic stuff. That buries the interesting achievements. I want to talk to the person who founded a start up or competed nationally in body building. Your research is unlikely to make me tolerate you slowing down my cases and forcing me to edit my OR dictations when I find out you didn't do a subq closure like I told you to, but having interesting points of view based on diverse life experiences might just do it. Excellence is relative and has multiple forms. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to publish because, yes, to an extent publication amount matters, but it isn't a linear scale.

Okay. I will start my first steroid cycle tomorrow based on this advice. I will stop doing research and make the goal of winning Mr Olympia 2023 my first and only priority.

[Guest]

Its obvious from this thread which advice is coming from senior people and which is coming from paranoid applicants/med students

[Guest]

More likely from bitter people who failed to match despite having what they thought was competitive application. Most likely it was their clinical work ethic on sub-i's, or their personality that sunk them. A single bad letter of rec, especially from your home program, will kill your app.

[Focus]

The response to my post is a great example of what I am getting at. A small group of posters here denigrate having interpersonal skills and experiences as drinking, sex, and now steroid use. I don't care if you are the top of some other field or sport. It's about three-dimensionality. This worship of step scores and publication count is an attempt to fill a three-dimensional void by maxing out two dimensions. It only works to a certain extent. They are nice because they are a quantifiable, easy metric that takes a lot less creativity to achieve, assess, and judge. You just have to grind up to a point at least. Notice how no one on that side of the argument seems to talk about publication quality or publication impact. It's just getting that 20 plus number. That is the perceived salvation of the socially awkward. I feel like I am reading a red pill website some of the time on this forum. Don't knock "drinking and sex" until you have tried it. Churning out five publications isn't going to solve the interpersonal conflict between you and the ER attending who wants to get you fired. The next research deadline is not going to help you burn off steam when you kill your first patient and feel like a huge tub of crap. I am not interviewing applicants for a residency position. I'm interviewing applicants for eventual graduation from residency. You do me no credit if you fizzle out on your first day of trauma call.

[Guest]

i hate left-wing boomers who want to demonize achievement in favor of "diversity" and "social skills". Gen z will replace them and reinstitute merit.

[Focus]

Play your cards how you wish, but some people are shit out of luck either way

[Guest]

but if you publish 20+ woulden't it mean you have good interpersonal skills? you have to work with the PhD, stats guy, other med students, the publisher, etc? So thats a good metric for interpersonal skills since publishing is a team activity nowadays.

By contrast, bodybuilding is a solo activity, lol

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So I worked in a lab and published some from that, everything I did was teamwork--work with the lab techs, post-docs, PIs etc. In my opinion it would be impossible to publish with bad interpersonal skills, the people just won't work with you.

Am i missing something, Focus?

[Guest]

^ dude why are you so salty, you sound like a loser incel. Our field doesn’t need people like you