(09-01-2024, 05:57 AM)Guest Wrote: To an extent this is true is nearly every occupation on the planet. Connections are helpful. But residents are not targeted for no reason in the beginning. It is a huge pain in the ass to do all of the paper work to get rid of a resident, and it is a burden on the rest of the resident pool, so no program is out to get their residents in the beginning. No intern has ever showed up in July to a Chair/PD that says "screw this person in particular". So your 5 fired residents, something started the process. They did something. In your opinion maybe it was not egregious. Maybe you do not think it warranted firing. But it convinced a department of attendings that it was a problem with the hospital's brand should not be on their diploma. So I would never really take the residents side in it that got fired. In every case, there are always multiple big offenses/professionalism problems/lies/lazy/cover ups that led to their dismissal and its just naive to believe otherwise.
Let me set the record straight: the notion that residents don't get fired without reason is dangerously naive and dismisses the reality that many face in toxic work environments. It’s easy to assume that residents are only dismissed due to their own failings, but this viewpoint is detached from the experiences of those who have been unjustly terminated.
When residents are fired, especially in the later years of training, it’s often not about their performance or professionalism but about something far more insidious: retaliation for speaking up. Medical residency programs, like many hierarchical systems, can be incredibly toxic, with a "keep your head down and don’t make waves" mentality. If you dare to point out problems—be it patient safety concerns, understaffing, or unethical behavior—you’re putting a target on your back.
Take, for instance, the case of the Mizzou resident. This wasn’t about poor performance or misconduct; it was about a resident who was close to completing their training and who had the courage to speak out against the dysfunctional aspects of the program. It’s no coincidence that those who are vocal about these issues often find themselves suddenly labeled as "problematic." The program’s leadership, rather than addressing the underlying issues, decides to eliminate the "troublemaker." This isn’t about maintaining standards; it’s about protecting the program’s image and avoiding scrutiny.
The paperwork burden of firing a resident is indeed significant, but that’s not a deterrent when the goal is self-preservation for the institution. The idea that a whole department of attendings unanimously decides to fire a resident based on objective reasons is a fantasy. More often than not, it’s a decision driven by fear of exposure, retaliation against whistleblowing, or simply a desire to silence dissent.
Residents are among the most vulnerable in the medical hierarchy. They lack the protection that attendings have, and when they’re targeted, it’s often because they’ve dared to challenge the status quo. So before you blindly trust that a resident "did something" to deserve being fired, consider the possibility that they were simply brave enough to speak out—and that bravery cost them their career.
And to the person who said, "I would never really take the resident's side," it’s time to reconsider who the real villains are in these stories. It’s not the residents who speak up; it’s the institutions that silence them.
And your point is? Here’s a pro tip: you graduate you get to practice and be your own person, do good work. Don’t fuck it up by biting the hand that feeds you.
Sometimes a resident speaks up and tries to retaliate on a program when they feel mistreated. No one just tries to speak up out of nowhere. Imagine not being liked by any of your residents just due to personality.
You may not do anything bad, but you just may be considered different. maybe you are a Star Wars guy and everyone else are jocks. Maybe you sleep around with all the nurses tha some o the other residents wish they could have got and been rejected by.
Different people tend to gang up and give you extra work and treat you different which makes you hate coming to your work environment. And when they are throwing you under the bus, all you want to do as a picked on resident is throw the program under the bus. It’s a defense mechanism . There are two sides to any story.
I personally know about over 10 Neurosurgery residents that have been fired and it’s all the same theme. It is odd that one is professional enough to make it through college and medical school top of class and then somehow all the sudden just decides to become unprofessional. that makes zero sense and the only change variable is the environment. It’s a messed up system, though where if a resident tries to get back in, they can have all the support in the world multiple attending, and other people vouching for them, but still get blocked in the end due to, an old boys club. This unfairness in unethical practice of residency will be exposed in the next 10 years. It’s already been slowly unwrapping due to the millennial and up transition.
Where are all these residents getting fired from lol
Agree with above. No program WANTS to fire a resident, even if they are universally hated. It is a lot of work, it opens programs up to litigation, and it hurts a program in their future matches. As an intern, I was present when my program decided to fire one of the other junior residents. It was not an act taken lightly. The program gave him years of additional chances, and many opportunities for remediation. It was really when continued egregious behavior occurred despite all of this that the program finally decided that it was a patient safety issue. Even as an intern and then as a junior resident, it was clear that the problem lay with the resident and not the program. Now as an attending on the other side, it remains true. We don’t want to fire residents, we want to help you and teach you.
to the dude trying to tell everyone how awful he and all the other fired residents were treated ... just stop it. We all know that the occasional mistreatment happens, it does at all jobs, although this is surely amplified by the steep hierarchy of medical training. But you need to get out of your echo chamber of fired residents and move on and stop shitting on everyone.
And absolutely yes, there's tons of people who go through their education as the top of their class and master everything without major red flags, until they end up in residency where, for the first time really, their undeveloped social skills show. What you may interpret as 'sleeping with the wrong nurse', might be you bothering said nurse after she found out how creepy you were the next morning or how you can't accept a 'no' after being involved with people. The star wars example is just not it my man. There's plenty of nerds in the field, but most know how to be team players and interact with their fellow residents.
But so many high achievers end up lacking the ability for team work, the empathy in patient interactions that's so crucial in our field, and yes, they get shunned out. That may not be fair to you, but at the end of the day, people need to rely on one another. It often starts as someone not fitting in, being weird around ancillary stuff or patients, and develops into more severe misconduct like lying to attendings or chiefs.
You got it right, there's always two sides to a story, but it seems that you are completely neglecting the program's side, and seeing zero faults in yourself. I'm sorry it didn't work out, I truly am, because in the rigid US system that is a major setback. But I don't think that blaming everyone else and showing zero accountability, especially around others with the same fate, is the right way to go. Saying you know 5 residents that were fired and none of them deserved it in any way just shows us how far you got your head in your ass
As a graduate who saw at least 3 residents got fired from my program and heard stories from others at other programs, I can surely say that "a whole department of attendings unanimously decides to fire a resident" is a myth. It usually starts with 1-2 people who hate/don't believe in that resident and they start building a story and document silly things over and over by getting them from nurses and 1-2 back-stabbing dirty residents, then keep presenting them more and more in periodic faculty meetings. This will make all faculty hesitant to work or untrust that resident and things build up from there. So even faculty who never worked with that resident, they would vote to fire that resident just from hearing repetitive story in those in smoke-filled rooms.
Yes, some of those residents that got fired from my program had weaknesses but they were targeted right away and didn't get protection or help like others. On the other hand, I have witnessed residents with awful attitude and unprofessional behavior that got protected because the chair/PD liked them. I have even witnessed a resident doing wrong-side surgery during their chief year and still got protected by blaming it on others.
This beautiful field is getting destroyed by the unfair leadership. Basically it's similar to the lobbying and dirty process in DC...this is why the US government, democrats and republicans, are destroying this country.
There is an air of truth in all these posts. The fact of the matter is, all residents encounter challenges and set backs, and that could (or could not) leave them vulnerable. Some residents get more “benefit of the doubt” than others. Nevertheless, the role of the resident is to put in the work clinically and academically, and to realize that they are always being evaluated. Why are neurosurgeons so cut throat and critical? Because neurosurgery is stressful, and challenging, and quite frankly if you are not up to standard, you will maim people or kill them when you are an independent surgeon. No-one is perfect and there are “favorites” whether they are justified or not. Your responsibility as a resident is to always hold yourself up to a high standard professionally and become reliable to your attendings. Ultimately, it is a relationship built on trust. If you are reliable, dedicated to your work, professional, and not trying to make waves in your program’s infrastructure/politics, you almost universally will continue to the end if you can operate even reasonably well.
This “woe is me” and “i did nothing wrong” is exactly why you got fired in the first place. Zero accountability is extremely dangerous and your inability to see any faults with your actions are a huge red flag. That’s how programs let out Doctor Deaths.
I’m sorry to break it to you but life as an attending isn’t just rainbows and butterflies. The US healthcare system is toxic and it’s getting worse. Try having to answer to completely ridiculous metrics and defend your medical decisions to a college graduate in liberal arts who has never stepped foot in a hospital. It sucks. You picked this field. This is where we currently are. My point being, part of your job as a resident is to learn to pick your battles and learn to work in a complex work environment. By the looks of zero accountability, I’m sure you have a bunch more red flags but attendings aren’t as protected as you think.
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