(01-06-2022, 09:51 PM)Guest Wrote: people say MGH gets hate when MGH fans just put words into others' mouths and are oversensitive about the fact that they're just not a program known for operative training.
It is a very simple fact that, if you put a lot of emphasis on academic training, attract basic science people and allow 2 full years off, your program will produce academic leaders but they won't go out as operatively well-trained as other programs that put their emphasis on clinical training only. You can't have it both ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. Our field needs both graduates
Many residents at those programs use 1 or both years doing clinical fellowships, so by this logic those residents would come out seeing equivalent case volumes. No one is going to argue that MGH trains better surgeons than barrow, but the reality is that you’re as good as you work to be. Are you hungry for cases? Are you spending time in the cadaver lab?
You can be a master surgeon graduating from any program if that’s what you want and you put that time in. It’ll be easier for you at an operative program the same way research will be easier at a place with lots of R01’s. There’s no need to hate on any program, just residents that complain they aren’t being spoonfed greatness
Hello, how does mayo manage to do both superior clinical and research training?
Thank you
Mayo has a lot of cases and a fairly autonomous chief year during which residents run a clinic, put on elective cases, and take care of all inpatient consults. There is also the opportunity to do enfolded fellowships after chief year in skull base, spine, intra-axial tumors, and endovascular. I don’t know if this model is the best, but you graduate competent in general neurosurgery courtesy of the chief year, with the ability to have sub specialty training as well. Regarding research, there is time to do it and a decent number of options, but it’s not on par with major universities like MGH, UCSF, etc. In other words, you have to tailor your interests to what’s available. I would echo that crappy surgeons can come from anywhere, and what really matters is the work you put in.
(01-07-2022, 08:38 AM)Guest Wrote: Mayo has a lot of cases and a fairly autonomous chief year during which residents run a clinic, put on elective cases, and take care of all inpatient consults. There is also the opportunity to do enfolded fellowships after chief year in skull base, spine, intra-axial tumors, and endovascular. I don’t know if this model is the best, but you graduate competent in general neurosurgery courtesy of the chief year, with the ability to have sub specialty training as well. Regarding research, there is time to do it and a decent number of options, but it’s not on par with major universities like MGH, UCSF, etc. In other words, you have to tailor your interests to what’s available. I would echo that crappy surgeons can come from anywhere, and what really matters is the work you put in.
Oh ok thank you for this information.
If I make take the liberty to ask, what do you guys feel about the view that smarter, higher-IQ people learn more quickly? I would guess that residents at "prestige" places like MGH, USCF, Mayo, etc would be able to learn more quickly and hence need less operative experience compared to places that attract lower IQ-individuals.
For example, in my medical school, we have people who stay in anatomy lab all day and still have to remediate. Meanwhile, we have people who just visit the lab twice, and get top grades. Just because they spend less time in anatomy lab, doesn't mean they are worse at anatomy, for example.
Again I don't want to offend, but just wanted to inquire about this possibility.
(01-07-2022, 08:38 AM)Guest Wrote: Mayo has a lot of cases and a fairly autonomous chief year during which residents run a clinic, put on elective cases, and take care of all inpatient consults. There is also the opportunity to do enfolded fellowships after chief year in skull base, spine, intra-axial tumors, and endovascular. I don’t know if this model is the best, but you graduate competent in general neurosurgery courtesy of the chief year, with the ability to have sub specialty training as well. Regarding research, there is time to do it and a decent number of options, but it’s not on par with major universities like MGH, UCSF, etc. In other words, you have to tailor your interests to what’s available. I would echo that crappy surgeons can come from anywhere, and what really matters is the work you put in.
Oh ok thank you for this information.
If I make take the liberty to ask, what do you guys feel about the view that smarter, higher-IQ people learn more quickly? I would guess that residents at "prestige" places like MGH, USCF, Mayo, etc would be able to learn more quickly and hence need less operative experience compared to places that attract lower IQ-individuals.
For example, in my medical school, we have people who stay in anatomy lab all day and still have to remediate. Meanwhile, we have people who just visit the lab twice, and get top grades. Just because they spend less time in anatomy lab, doesn't mean they are worse at anatomy, for example.
Again I don't want to offend, but just wanted to inquire about this possibility.
there's so much wrong with your question, that it doesn't matter how often you'll act like it's an innocent question. Everyone who made it this far has a high enough level of intelligence to practice medicine and be good at it. At this point it's EQ>IQ
What makes you think MGH, UCSF, etc. have people with higher IQs, and other places attract "lower-IQ" people? Do you know how the match works?
(01-07-2022, 06:50 PM)Guest Wrote: there's so much wrong with your question, that it doesn't matter how often you'll act like it's an innocent question. Everyone who made it this far has a high enough level of intelligence to practice medicine and be good at it. At this point it's EQ>IQ
What makes you think MGH, UCSF, etc. have people with higher IQs, and other places attract "lower-IQ" people? Do you know how the match works?
The original question wasn't particularly tactful, but pretending like "EQ" is the most critical factor for most surgeons of any specialty is kind of fanciful.
I hope I don't offend anyone. Just wanted to make an observation.
I remember in grade school we had special classes for smarter kids. In these classes, teachers spent less time teaching and more time on doing creative projects and independent work. This is because the smart kids learned the material really quickly so teachers could spend time on other things.
I guess the same is true for NS residency.
Of course, I may be wrong, but this seems to be the case, at least to me.
(01-07-2022, 07:41 PM)Guest Wrote: I hope I don't offend anyone. Just wanted to make an observation.
I remember in grade school we had special classes for smarter kids. In these classes, teachers spent less time teaching and more time on doing creative projects and independent work. This is because the smart kids learned the material really quickly so teachers could spend time on other things.
I guess the same is true for NS residency.
Of course, I may be wrong, but this seems to be the case, at least to me.
Right because the Nature publishers already know ACDFs and trauma cranis, they don’t need the reps.
This is true. But anytime someone suggests here that the residents in the top 10 programs are of higher caliber in terms of intelligence and ability, the residents from the remaining 110 programs start whining.
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