Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What does it take to be let go from residency?
#11
It's also about favorites. I know many unprofessional people, attending and residents. I could put names and incidents on here from my program and could raise all sorts of hell, but I won't out of courtesy. There are people cheating, doing drugs, harassment, threats, skipping on work, showing up drunk to work, having sex at work, not returning pages, breaking phones/pagers/etc. If your program likes you (you publish, relies on you for majority of work, well liked person, etc) they will do anything to protect you. If you kinda just skate by, and are bad like this then it is all just negatives and they let you go. I've seen people sleep with multiple nurses on a service and get on the bad side (two of them got pregnant by same guy) and they had issues with the resident, most other nurses didnt like the guy thought he was sly, but they made the nurses leave and protected the resident. Its a messed up world where politics is king.

There is this website of a West Point Grad orthopedic surgeon ex-resident who was kicked out PGY-3...he has done amazing in army physician jobs and excelled. Has great LORs. He has reapplied to orthopedics for the past 10+ years but still cannot get in. It is sad. He can do the surgeries and the job. He has the passion to keep pursuing it for 10+ years, aka enough years to do residency twice. But is a damn blackmail against him keeping him out. It saddens me every time I read it, shows the unfairness of the process.

http://www.residencyrehab.com/my-story.html
Reply
#12
(06-15-2020, 07:31 PM)Guest Wrote: It's also about favorites.  I know many unprofessional people, attending and residents.  I could put names and incidents on here from my program and could raise all sorts of hell, but I won't out of courtesy.  There are people cheating, doing drugs, harassment, threats, skipping on work, showing up drunk to work, having sex at work, not returning pages, breaking phones/pagers/etc.  If your program likes you (you publish, relies on you for majority of work, well liked person, etc) they will do anything to protect you.  If you kinda just skate by, and are bad like this then it is all just negatives and they let you go.  I've seen people sleep with multiple nurses on a service and get on the bad side (two of them got pregnant by same guy) and they had issues with the resident, most other nurses didnt like the guy thought he was sly, but they made the nurses leave and protected the resident.  Its a messed up world where politics is king.  

There is this website of a West Point Grad orthopedic surgeon ex-resident who was kicked out PGY-3...he has done amazing in army physician jobs and excelled.  Has great LORs.  He has reapplied to orthopedics for the past 10+ years but still cannot get in.  It is sad.  He can do the surgeries and the job.  He has the passion to keep pursuing it for 10+ years, aka enough years to do residency twice.  But is a damn blackmail against him keeping him out.  It saddens me every time I read it, shows the unfairness of the process.

http://www.residencyrehab.com/my-story.html

Knew this was complete and utter bullshit when I saw this line:

"the test results put me in MENSA and put me in the top 10% of physician IQs" 

You answered the question correctly. Yes, your program will protect you if you're well liked, publish, and do most of the work. That's what you are there to do: work. They are HIRING you to do WORK. Along the way, you get supervised and taught, and they get federal funding, an academic practice, and the pleasure of teaching. If you're taking good care of people and your co-workers - AKA doing what they HIRED you do to - they'll fight to keep you. If you are the kind of person that thinks that brandishing an IQ test result is reason to believe a program should hire or keep you, you have missed the point entirely. For hardworking residents who may be behind but show a genuine desire to improve, programs will give them extra years, get them more time on service, hire extra help, help them find fellowships...they will do that if they think that you have the underlying right stuff to make a career in neurosurgery happen. Nobody should be showing up drunk to work, skipping work, or doing drugs, bar none - even though I'm sure it happens. But if you think that the concept of good karma paying off in the workplace is unfair...then you don't understand how the real world works.

Put another way, I have never, ever (in 15 yrs in the field) heard of a resident firing that was completely unjustified. It is too hard, too expensive, and too damaging to a department not to take the process seriously.
Reply
#13
I was forced to resign from a residency, being told its not a specific event but just events over time. At the time I was forced to resign I was doing quite well and even picking up slack for other residents, I was going into overdrive.

It was just the feeling of the program that I couldn't continue. I was actually doing well. But then was told not to continue and that if I didnt resign I would be put on immediate probation which even if I did well on I would get fired because it was just gonna be technicality in the firing process. That's b.s. and I feel a probation should be the program trying to help you, but they rather just throw the person away because its easier.
Reply
#14
The West Point guy lost me at “I started recording conversations”
Reply
#15
(06-15-2020, 09:02 PM)Guest Wrote: I was forced to resign from a residency, being told its not a specific event but just events over time.  At the time I was forced to resign I was doing quite well and even picking up slack for other residents, I was going into overdrive.

It was just the feeling of the program that I couldn't continue.  I was actually doing well.  But then was told not to continue and that if I didnt resign I would be put on immediate probation which even if I did well on I would get fired because it was just gonna be technicality in the firing process.  That's b.s. and I feel a probation should be the program trying to help you, but they rather just throw the person away because its easier.

That's pretty terrible and I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope that this is one program gone rogue rather than the norm across programs. Like one of the previous posters, almost every case of a resident being let go that I know of, the program had reasonable cause and I could atleast understand why they did it.
Reply
#16
That residency rehab blogger was clearly Ill at the beginning. If you don't get that deep gut feeling after s couple of paragraphs sign up for another psych rotation.

"I was addicted to amphetamine and had experienced personality changes"
Reply
#17
(06-15-2020, 08:03 PM)Guest Wrote:
(06-15-2020, 07:31 PM)Guest Wrote: It's also about favorites.  I know many unprofessional people, attending and residents.  I could put names and incidents on here from my program and could raise all sorts of hell, but I won't out of courtesy.  There are people cheating, doing drugs, harassment, threats, skipping on work, showing up drunk to work, having sex at work, not returning pages, breaking phones/pagers/etc.  If your program likes you (you publish, relies on you for majority of work, well liked person, etc) they will do anything to protect you.  If you kinda just skate by, and are bad like this then it is all just negatives and they let you go.  I've seen people sleep with multiple nurses on a service and get on the bad side (two of them got pregnant by same guy) and they had issues with the resident, most other nurses didnt like the guy thought he was sly, but they made the nurses leave and protected the resident.  Its a messed up world where politics is king.  

There is this website of a West Point Grad orthopedic surgeon ex-resident who was kicked out PGY-3...he has done amazing in army physician jobs and excelled.  Has great LORs.  He has reapplied to orthopedics for the past 10+ years but still cannot get in.  It is sad.  He can do the surgeries and the job.  He has the passion to keep pursuing it for 10+ years, aka enough years to do residency twice.  But is a damn blackmail against him keeping him out.  It saddens me every time I read it, shows the unfairness of the process.

http://www.residencyrehab.com/my-story.html

Knew this was complete and utter bullshit when I saw this line:

"the test results put me in MENSA and put me in the top 10% of physician IQs" 

You answered the question correctly. Yes, your program will protect you if you're well liked, publish, and do most of the work. That's what you are there to do: work. They are HIRING you to do WORK. Along the way, you get supervised and taught, and they get federal funding, an academic practice, and the pleasure of teaching. If you're taking good care of people and your co-workers - AKA doing what they HIRED you do to - they'll fight to keep you. If you are the kind of person that thinks that brandishing an IQ test result is reason to believe a program should hire or keep you, you have missed the point entirely. For hardworking residents who may be behind but show a genuine desire to improve, programs will give them extra years, get them more time on service, hire extra help, help them find fellowships...they will do that if they think that you have the underlying right stuff to make a career in neurosurgery happen. Nobody should be showing up drunk to work, skipping work, or doing drugs, bar none - even though I'm sure it happens. But if you think that the concept of good karma paying off in the workplace is unfair...then you don't understand how the real world works.

Put another way, I have never, ever (in 15 yrs in the field) heard of a resident firing that was completely unjustified. It is too hard, too expensive, and too damaging to a department not to take the process seriously.

Saw that my website was getting hits from this website, so I came over to see how it was being mentioned.   I am the creator of residencyrehab.com  

West Point class of 2000, Univ of MD school of medicine class of 2008 



You think that line is bullshit?  Allow me to clarify.  My IQ score was 135.  I have the clinical notes that specify how it was calculated.  Several pages from the Military's electronic medical record system, AHLTA.  To figure out what they were trying to do with the IQ score and to determine how to defend myself, I purchased the book 'Neuropsychological Interpretation of Objective Psychological Tests' by Charles J. Golden Patricia Espe-Pfeifer, and Jana Washcler-Felder.   I also scoured the internet for information that could put my score into context.  

Check out the bottom of the chart at the link : https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

It appears that 135 falls in the top 10% to me.  

I understand that a certain kind of American is quick to dismiss the experiences of 'other' people as not real.  I suspect that you are one of those Americans who can never be convinced that some seriously unfair stuff happens to some of us, while you don't have to worry about it.  

email me at residencyrehab@gmail.com if you have anything else to say
Reply
#18
(06-16-2020, 04:59 PM)Guest Wrote:
(06-15-2020, 08:03 PM)Guest Wrote:
(06-15-2020, 07:31 PM)Guest Wrote: It's also about favorites.  I know many unprofessional people, attending and residents.  I could put names and incidents on here from my program and could raise all sorts of hell, but I won't out of courtesy.  There are people cheating, doing drugs, harassment, threats, skipping on work, showing up drunk to work, having sex at work, not returning pages, breaking phones/pagers/etc.  If your program likes you (you publish, relies on you for majority of work, well liked person, etc) they will do anything to protect you.  If you kinda just skate by, and are bad like this then it is all just negatives and they let you go.  I've seen people sleep with multiple nurses on a service and get on the bad side (two of them got pregnant by same guy) and they had issues with the resident, most other nurses didnt like the guy thought he was sly, but they made the nurses leave and protected the resident.  Its a messed up world where politics is king.  

There is this website of a West Point Grad orthopedic surgeon ex-resident who was kicked out PGY-3...he has done amazing in army physician jobs and excelled.  Has great LORs.  He has reapplied to orthopedics for the past 10+ years but still cannot get in.  It is sad.  He can do the surgeries and the job.  He has the passion to keep pursuing it for 10+ years, aka enough years to do residency twice.  But is a damn blackmail against him keeping him out.  It saddens me every time I read it, shows the unfairness of the process.

http://www.residencyrehab.com/my-story.html

Knew this was complete and utter bullshit when I saw this line:

"the test results put me in MENSA and put me in the top 10% of physician IQs" 

You answered the question correctly. Yes, your program will protect you if you're well liked, publish, and do most of the work. That's what you are there to do: work. They are HIRING you to do WORK. Along the way, you get supervised and taught, and they get federal funding, an academic practice, and the pleasure of teaching. If you're taking good care of people and your co-workers - AKA doing what they HIRED you do to - they'll fight to keep you. If you are the kind of person that thinks that brandishing an IQ test result is reason to believe a program should hire or keep you, you have missed the point entirely. For hardworking residents who may be behind but show a genuine desire to improve, programs will give them extra years, get them more time on service, hire extra help, help them find fellowships...they will do that if they think that you have the underlying right stuff to make a career in neurosurgery happen. Nobody should be showing up drunk to work, skipping work, or doing drugs, bar none - even though I'm sure it happens. But if you think that the concept of good karma paying off in the workplace is unfair...then you don't understand how the real world works.

Put another way, I have never, ever (in 15 yrs in the field) heard of a resident firing that was completely unjustified. It is too hard, too expensive, and too damaging to a department not to take the process seriously.

Saw that my website was getting hits from this website, so I came over to see how it was being mentioned.   I am the creator of residencyrehab.com  

West Point class of 2000, Univ of MD school of medicine class of 2008 



You think that line is bullshit?  Allow me to clarify.  My IQ score was 135.  I have the clinical notes that specify how it was calculated.  Several pages from the Military's electronic medical record system, AHLTA.  To figure out what they were trying to do with the IQ score and to determine how to defend myself, I purchased the book 'Neuropsychological Interpretation of Objective Psychological Tests' by Charles J. Golden Patricia Espe-Pfeifer, and Jana Washcler-Felder.   I also scoured the internet for information that could put my score into context.  

Check out the bottom of the chart at the link : https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

It appears that 135 falls in the top 10% to me.  

I understand that a certain kind of American is quick to dismiss the experiences of 'other' people as not real.  I suspect that you are one of those Americans who can never be convinced that some seriously unfair stuff happens to some of us, while you don't have to worry about it.  

email me at residencyrehab@gmail.com if you have anything else to say

Well now it makes complete sense
Reply
#19
This could turn into a back and forth but how about we make it productive. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in how you have successfully addressed substance abuse. Not something frequently talked about it but substance abuse is rampant in surgery.
Reply
#20
(06-16-2020, 08:38 PM)Focus Wrote: This could turn into a back and forth but how about we make it productive. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in how you have successfully addressed substance abuse. Not something frequently talked about it but substance abuse is rampant in surgery.

This is Residency Rehab Blogger again... 

You're right, the back and forth is less than ideal.. I cannot convince others that there is another reality lived by Americans who don't look like you.  If you don't believe it, some loser who got kicked out of his residency on the internet will certainly not convince you.  

The substance abuse issue was insane.  I was prescribed the amphetamine during my intern year for inattention and then became dependent on it within about 6 months.  From there, the anorexia effect caused me to lose weight and my short term memory evaporated.  The IQ test showed that as well, my working memory was at the level of a 100 IQ.  

The website goes over how I pulled myself off the medication in attempts to 'get clean' and make the case that the medication had been messing me up all along.  That plan actually worked, and I was immediately placed on a leave of absence.  

Those months when I was away were some of the hardest days of my life.  I was in serious withdrawal.  Gained all kinds of weight, fell into depression and suicidal thoughts.  But I wouldn't tell anyone for fear that they might use it against me.   I basically quit cold turkey, so I don't have much insight on how to deal with the addiction per se. 

I would say.. if you are tempted to get on amphetamine to deal with the fatigue.  Consider not doing it.  Max out on Vitamin D, Fish Oil (perhaps I sound like a Hippie, but over the years I've found that vitamin D can work wonders if you're deficient).  Also, use a clean diet to optimize your alertness.    Most of us go through life without realizing how much cognitive clarity and alertness come from the food that we eat.  As I was recovering from what was literally years of eating very little, and eating trash when I did.. I watched 'Forks over Knives.'  It was 2011 and the documentary had just come out on Netflix.  

I made a lot of changes based on that.  I did not completely eliminate meat, but I made every effort to eliminate all artificial food products.  The reasoning in the film seemed solid, we evolved to eat plants for the most part.  So anything that I could not have consumed about 200 years ago I considered unnatural and eliminated.  

This made a huge difference.  Despite these improvements, I craved amphetamine throughout the time that I was in recovery.  It was very hard to not take it as I had left over pills.  Eventually, my doctor treated the depression and my cravings subsided.  After a year on Effexor I had zero desire to take amphetamine.  I now believe that the inattention that I sought treatment for at the beginning was probably just depression in the first place.  

So if I were to summarize my experience, I would say that I entered residency with some horrible eating habits (but I was thin and athletic, so I never knew).  I also had some mild depression that I had dealt with since my teen years.  The combination of residency and all of these factors AND an addiction to amphetamine led to an insane crash 3 years into it.  

Was there some shady stuff going on as well?  Yes, you can lose your mind and still be treated unfairly.  Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you.  Not one, but two other residents had both psychiatric and substance related issues during this same time period at the same residency program.  Their treatment was significantly different than my own.  Dramatically so, that is why I made such a big deal about it.  Not because I was the perfect resident, but because the differential treatment was so blatant.
Reply


[-]
Quick Reply
Message
Type your reply to this message here.

Image Verification
Please enter the text contained within the image into the text box below it. This process is used to prevent automated spam bots.
Image Verification
(case insensitive)

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)