Operative vs more traditional academic programs for future academic positions

[Guest]

(01-25-2022, 02:07 PM)Guest Wrote: I’m the OP, but kinda addressing a question that has been unanswered - can fellowship compensate for a lighter operative experience during residency?

No. Its stupid to assume 1 year of fellowship will make up for 7 years of subpar technical training

[Guest]

(01-27-2022, 07:51 AM)Guest Wrote:

(01-25-2022, 02:07 PM)Guest Wrote: I’m the OP, but kinda addressing a question that has been unanswered - can fellowship compensate for a lighter operative experience during residency?

No. Its stupid to assume 1 year of fellowship will make up for 7 years of subpar technical training

Agreed. Kind of tired of hearing people say that if you don’t get a good operative experience you can just fix that with a fellowship. Do attendings want to be teaching fellows how to operate? Do you want to be comfortable operating on anything outside of your fellowship?

[Guest]

Would also like to know what makes for a subpar technical training and how we know that it is subpar

[Guest]

(01-27-2022, 12:26 PM)Guest Wrote: Would also like to know what makes for a subpar technical training and how we know that it is subpar

Applicants, you get to visit a program for a whole month as a Sub-I. There’s much information to be gleaned, no one can be on their best behavior forever. Look to see what the chief is able to do alone. Are they calling for help early in the case. Do they look like they’ll be an attending in a few months. How many residents are scrubbed into each case. Too many is bad. A maximum of 2 residents can realistically improve their technical skills when scrubbed in a case. What are the middle year residents doing? Are they waiting around as a 3rd or 4th set of hands in the chief’s cases or are they doing lead cases at the main hospital or other rotation site, the latter is better. Do attendings discuss their styles reasons and/or are they approachable enough to ask during or after the case, if so thats good. Are residents given such graded autonomy and room for growth in all pathologies.

PGY-1 you learn to be a doctor and introduce yourself to the neurosurgical OR. Pick up on positioning, hemostasis, layers etc

PGY-2 to PGY4 gradually gaining more skills and autonomy, learning more indications and contraindications, trauma, shunt, basic tumor, lami, TLIF, microdiscs, ACDF, PCDF, DBS etc

PGY-5 to PGY-7 gaining more autonomy, goal is to be able to do more and more of the case without the attending having to scrub in, teaching your junior in the OR, gaining more confidence with vascular, skull base, PSOs, corpectomies, deformity, epilepsy surgery

[Guest]

(01-27-2022, 11:34 AM)Guest Wrote:

(01-27-2022, 07:51 AM)Guest Wrote:

(01-25-2022, 02:07 PM)Guest Wrote: I’m the OP, but kinda addressing a question that has been unanswered - can fellowship compensate for a lighter operative experience during residency?

No. Its stupid to assume 1 year of fellowship will make up for 7 years of subpar technical training

Agreed. Kind of tired of hearing people say that if you don’t get a good operative experience you can just fix that with a fellowship. Do attendings want to be teaching fellows how to operate? Do you want to be comfortable operating on anything outside of your fellowship?

The point of fellowships is to round out or gain high-level operative skills in a certain sub specialty. No one is saying sub-par operative training for 7-years is being replaced. But there is this ridiculous narrative on these subs that you can only get great operative training at a handful of places (zomg bARrOw) You go to any of the top 50 programs and you get a solid operative experience. The way things are going, even if you go to an operatively heavy program, if you want a top job you’re gonna need to have the fellowship on a piece of paper anyways.

[Focus]

Compensate is the key word. Not replace

[Guest]

(01-24-2022, 03:26 AM)Guest Wrote:

(01-23-2022, 07:55 PM)drstrange Wrote: Off the cuff - Maryland is a great place with a good track record. USC gets some love, but not as much as some of the other "name brand" places everyone obsesses over. Utah gets after it. Iowa and University of Florida. Like the Pacific northwest but don't want to live in Seattle? OHSU. None of those places would shock anyone - but a lot of med students just ignore them since they might not be as flashy. How often do they get listed in "top 10 flavor of the month" posts?

Look at places with a past Cushing award winner for chair or PD. Everyone knows Jim Rutka and Art Day know how to train people. But does anyone talk about their programs? No. Because Toronto is north of the border and everyone ignores UTH for BCM.

Go to any one of these places and you can be set up if you work hard.

They might disagree at Brigham

Why?

[Guest]

Did a subi there previously, and UCSF/Pitt

BWH — Double scrubbing, residents in open vascular cases kicked out once dura open, PGY3 struggled to close a spine

At UCSF/Pitt they were doing everything by themselves by PGY5

Not even close. Unfortunately the contrast is something that can’t be appreciated with one to no subi’s

[Guest]

^^^ That is not what I have heard from other who did subi at those places. You sound like a Pitt resident, trying to compare Pitt to USCF lol

[Focus]

There's a Pitt fellow at UCSF right now. Perfect opportunity to compare and contrast