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"Gentlemen's" Programs
#31
By shutting it down we only further perpetuate a culture of censorship - young people in our field need to know that sexism and racism can't stand. Not anymore. Be professional.
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#32
There haven't been any reported posts.

Both sides need to tone down the rhetoric.
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#33
(12-16-2017, 07:43 PM)Guest Wrote: By shutting it down we only further perpetuate a culture of censorship - young people in our field need to know that sexism and racism can't stand. Not anymore. Be professional.

Agreed - thank you! Young AND senior people in the field need to know this. If you can’t be professional then shut up. Sexism and racism can’t stand, and if you’re insecure enough to be bothered by it, go seek help. This isn’t a “both sides” issue - it’s an issue of basic morality and decency. If you’re going to attack this then find your own group of people to cry with.

(12-16-2017, 05:45 PM)Guest Wrote: Agreed that this thread is an embarrassment to the field and should be shut down.

If it’s an embarrassment to the field, then do better!!!!! You can’t fix a problem by just shutting it down - fix it from within. Banning these conversations is Orwellian and dangerous - promote tolerance and open discussion.
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#34
(12-16-2017, 08:10 PM)Guest Wrote:
(12-16-2017, 07:43 PM)Guest Wrote: By shutting it down we only further perpetuate a culture of censorship - young people in our field need to know that sexism and racism can't stand. Not anymore. Be professional.

Agreed - thank you! Young AND senior people in the field need to know this. If you can’t be professional then shut up. Sexism and racism can’t stand, and if you’re insecure enough to be bothered by it, go seek help. This isn’t a “both sides” issue - it’s an issue of basic morality and decency. If you’re going to attack this then find your own group of people to cry with.

(12-16-2017, 05:45 PM)Guest Wrote: Agreed that this thread is an embarrassment to the field and should be shut down.

If it’s an embarrassment to the field, then do better!!!!! You can’t fix a problem by just shutting it down - fix it from within. Banning these conversations is Orwellian and dangerous - promote tolerance and open discussion.
I'm a chief at a top northeast program. I am all for diversity and acceptance of different backgrounds.  That being said, there is no room for entitledness on the junior level nor the manipulative nature of these so called millenials/social justice warriors.  Respect is earned, not a given. We enter the field with a net neutral, no matter what our background.
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#35
Hey Chief - junior attending in the NE here, not sure why residents spend their time trying to prove themselves on these forums. You have more important things to do. Also not sure what the entitledness you’re referring to is. If people want to have a conversation, let them. If everyone enters this field with a net neutral, then there would be an equal number of so-called “gentlemen’s” and “ladies” programs, and an astute person pointed out that there aren’t. That comment was neither entitled nor manipulative. And the original post was never answered to, which is comedic.
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#36
(12-16-2017, 09:02 PM)Guest Wrote: Hey Chief - junior attending in the NE here, not sure why residents spend their time trying to prove themselves on these forums. You have more important things to do. Also not sure what the entitledness you’re referring to is. If people want to have a conversation, let them. If everyone enters this field with a net neutral, then there would be an equal number of so-called “gentlemen’s” and “ladies” programs, and an astute person pointed out that there aren’t. That comment was neither entitled nor manipulative. And the original post was never answered to, which is comedic.

Medicine, neurosurgery included, is historically male dominated.  Gentleman's program is a term that carries over from this.  I'm not sure what you mesn by "ladies" program.

I'm not the other poster, but entitledness is prevalent in the junior ranks.  Namely, it is a very hard field and many of the newer generation make efforts to lighten their work load by pushing it off on others.  They accomplish this by arguing rather than following directions, and using things like duty hours as leverage.  In my experience, anyway, as others have indicated, these protests are met with less than a receptive response, and to the contrary, the parties making issues either acquiesce or abandon.
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#37
I’m curious as to who this woman if “color” is?
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#38
(12-18-2017, 05:31 AM)Guest Wrote: I’m curious as to who this woman if “color” is?

why does it matter?
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#39
Who assumed that it was a woman of color?? White men can also have progressive, rational beliefs, and honestly should support woman of color more.

(12-16-2017, 09:24 PM)Guest Wrote:
(12-16-2017, 09:02 PM)Guest Wrote: Hey Chief - junior attending in the NE here, not sure why residents spend their time trying to prove themselves on these forums. You have more important things to do. Also not sure what the entitledness you’re referring to is. If people want to have a conversation, let them. If everyone enters this field with a net neutral, then there would be an equal number of so-called “gentlemen’s” and “ladies” programs, and an astute person pointed out that there aren’t. That comment was neither entitled nor manipulative. And the original post was never answered to, which is comedic.

Medicine, neurosurgery included, is historically male dominated.  Gentleman's program is a term that carries over from this.  I'm not sure what you mesn by "ladies" program.

I'm not the other poster, but entitledness is prevalent in the junior ranks.  Namely, it is a very hard field and many of the newer generation make efforts to lighten their work load by pushing it off on others.  They accomplish this by arguing rather than following directions, and using things like duty hours as leverage.  In my experience, anyway, as others have indicated, these protests are met with less than a receptive response, and to the contrary, the parties making issues either acquiesce or abandon.

Medicine and neurosurgery may be historically male dominated, but that is NOT the current topic of discussion. The current debate revolves around how we can change that male dominated culture by questioning the archaic terms that we use.

And you are allowed to have your beliefs about juniors being entitled, but that is also not the current topic of discussion - people should be able to raise questions without you thinking they are entitled. Some of the hardest working residents and attendings I know raise perceptive questions about how we can make our field a more tolerant, inclusive space --- which benefits neuroscience, patients, physicians, and the whole healthcare system.
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#40
I'm a medical student at - it doesn't matter what the rank of my program is or where it is located. This thread has been pretty disgraceful on both sides and I will choose to believe that it is not representative of the field. This type of conversation is best had when people can't hide behind anonymity. If you don't have the courage to attach your name to your comments, maybe don't make them.

Do better. For yourselves and for your patients.

Sincerely,

Sanctimonious (But Correct) Med Student
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