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(03-19-2018, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: ^^ You think a Pitt med student matching at USC is a standout in terms of state school/big name program??? How is UVA at BNI that outlandish? Pitt's med school is better by all measures than USC. UVA has a top public med school. Encouraging cases for this discussion are the Hofstra at Hopkins and UTSA at UVA, MCG at Mount Sinai.
IU, UF, UWisc, UVA all have strong home programs. UNC and Louisville have up and coming departments. I'm not surprised that they produced strong applicants.
Agreed, some of those aren't too much of a stretch (especially USC taking someone from PITT). But the point is that being from a "state school" or a place with a less than desirable neurosurgery program won't hold you back from getting into a top program if you put in work
(03-19-2018, 06:23 PM)SUP Wrote: (03-19-2018, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: ^^ You think a Pitt med student matching at USC is a standout in terms of state school/big name program??? How is UVA at BNI that outlandish? Pitt's med school is better by all measures than USC. UVA has a top public med school. Encouraging cases for this discussion are the Hofstra at Hopkins and UTSA at UVA, MCG at Mount Sinai.
IU, UF, UWisc, UVA all have strong home programs. UNC and Louisville have up and coming departments. I'm not surprised that they produced strong applicants.
Agreed, some of those aren't too much of a stretch (especially USC taking someone from PITT). But the point is that being from a "state school" or a place with a less than desirable neurosurgery program won't hold you back from getting into a top program if you put in work
Pitt Neurosurgery >>> USC neurosurgery imo except if you're talking about location. Mississippi grad at Vandy is surprising.
(03-19-2018, 06:23 PM)SUP Wrote: (03-19-2018, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: ^^ You think a Pitt med student matching at USC is a standout in terms of state school/big name program??? How is UVA at BNI that outlandish? Pitt's med school is better by all measures than USC. UVA has a top public med school. Encouraging cases for this discussion are the Hofstra at Hopkins and UTSA at UVA, MCG at Mount Sinai.
IU, UF, UWisc, UVA all have strong home programs. UNC and Louisville have up and coming departments. I'm not surprised that they produced strong applicants.
Agreed, some of those aren't too much of a stretch (especially USC taking someone from PITT). But the point is that being from a "state school" or a place with a less than desirable neurosurgery program won't hold you back from getting into a top program if you put in work
I think that's the point. It's not a stretch. Scores, letters, grades, pubs win the day. Maybe UCSF and Stanford are examples where "Ivy" is more of a requisite.
(03-19-2018, 06:51 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-19-2018, 06:23 PM)SUP Wrote: (03-19-2018, 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: ^^ You think a Pitt med student matching at USC is a standout in terms of state school/big name program??? How is UVA at BNI that outlandish? Pitt's med school is better by all measures than USC. UVA has a top public med school. Encouraging cases for this discussion are the Hofstra at Hopkins and UTSA at UVA, MCG at Mount Sinai.
IU, UF, UWisc, UVA all have strong home programs. UNC and Louisville have up and coming departments. I'm not surprised that they produced strong applicants.
Agreed, some of those aren't too much of a stretch (especially USC taking someone from PITT). But the point is that being from a "state school" or a place with a less than desirable neurosurgery program won't hold you back from getting into a top program if you put in work
Pitt Neurosurgery >>> USC neurosurgery imo except if you're talking about location. Mississippi grad at Vandy is surprising.
I agree Pitt Neurosurgery >>> USC
Why?
Skull base
Endovascular
Radiosurgery
Tumor surgery
Both have incredible volume though.
It's not so much about being a state school that gives you a disadvantage. Take Indiana, UF, Ohio state for example. All are state schools but are also very well-regarded in the neurosurgery world. What will give you problems is being from a school that has no home program AND is generally low on USNWR/not highly-regarded in the neurosurgical community (just to give examples: UCF, SUNY downstate, Rosalind Franklin, Central Michigan, UC Riverside). If you're coming from a school like that with 260+ AOA, you will still struggle compared to the 245 non-AOA UCSF applicant. Can you still match at a good program? Of course, but it won't come easy..
(03-19-2018, 09:07 PM)Guest Wrote: It's not so much about being a state school that gives you a disadvantage. Take Indiana, UF, Ohio state for example. All are state schools but are also very well-regarded in the neurosurgery world. What will give you problems is being from a school that has no home program AND is generally low on USNWR/not highly-regarded in the neurosurgical community (just to give examples: UCF, SUNY downstate, Rosalind Franklin, Central Michigan, UC Riverside). If you're coming from a school like that with 260+ AOA, you will still struggle compared to the 245 non-AOA UCSF applicant. Can you still match at a good program? Of course, but it won't come easy..
I'd take that even further. A 240+ UCSF applicant with one publication will get interviewed by almost any program assuming they do well on aways. Berger letters go far. If you're coming from a neurosurgery factory like a UCSF/Hopkins/Columbia then you could match at a good program even if you decided on neurosurgery mid 3rd year.
(03-19-2018, 10:11 PM)Guest Wrote: (03-19-2018, 09:07 PM)Guest Wrote: It's not so much about being a state school that gives you a disadvantage. Take Indiana, UF, Ohio state for example. All are state schools but are also very well-regarded in the neurosurgery world. What will give you problems is being from a school that has no home program AND is generally low on USNWR/not highly-regarded in the neurosurgical community (just to give examples: UCF, SUNY downstate, Rosalind Franklin, Central Michigan, UC Riverside). If you're coming from a school like that with 260+ AOA, you will still struggle compared to the 245 non-AOA UCSF applicant. Can you still match at a good program? Of course, but it won't come easy..
I'd take that even further. A 240+ UCSF applicant with one publication will get interviewed by almost any program assuming they do well on aways. Berger letters go far. If you're coming from a neurosurgery factory like a UCSF/Hopkins/Columbia then you could match at a good program even if you decided on neurosurgery mid 3rd year.
Only one UCSF applicant on the Match list so far and they matched at...UCSF. Three JHU applicants and two matched at JHU and the other at Stanford. It sees like it is not all programs that seem to travel in those "exclusive" circles, just the same few over and over. If you are a great applicant from a state school or smaller school it just sees like a waste to go to UCSF, Stanford or JHU. Just sayin'. It is what the data seems to show. Happy to be proven wrong.
Stanford
Stanford-5
U Maryland-2
U Colorado-1
Sinai-1
Georgetown-1
Boston U-1
Yale-1
Vandy-1
Utah-1
Baylor-1
Pitt-1
Harvard-1
UW-1
WashU-1
Duke-1
Matches this year-tufts, Hopkins, Penn
UCSF
U Chicago-2
U Rochester-1
UCSF-3
UCLA-4
Emory-1
Ohsu-1
Yale-1
Vandy-1
Michigan-1
Tulane-1
Columbia-1
Penn-1
Wash u-1
Matches this year-UCSF,UCLA,Yale
Jhu
Yale-1
San Luis Potosí, Mexico-1
Jhu-7
NYU-1
Stanford-2
Columbia-1
Harvard -1
Cleveland clinic-1
Athens, Greece-1
Wake forest-1
U florida-1
Barcelona, Spain -1
Jefferson-1
U Tennessee-1
Mayo-1
Capital medical China-1
Matches this year-Dartmouth, hofstra, jhu x2
Them is the facts, take it how you like. I think it shows the unsurprising conclusion that many residents at highly sought after academically oriented programs come from fancy schools but that there are plenty of exceptions.
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Like others have posted, state school is a meaningless term when it comes to neurosurgery.
Where you went to medical school doesn't matter if you are an outstanding applicant. It matters a lot if you are a mediocre/average applicant. If you have high board scores (260+), a good publication record and great letters, you can match anywhere regardless of med school. If you are an average to below average applicant aka 240, minimal pubs, average letters, and are coming from a school with no home program or a very weak home program you might slip through the cracks. Whereas if you went to a top med school or somewhere with a strong program, school name and networking would probably get you a spot somewhere. A place with a strong program is also more likely to have good mentors who will tell you what you need to do to match, i.e. take time off for research etc. based on your application.
It is hard to get a good publication record if you are from a school with no program or a program that doesn't have residents/faculty who publish much. It is hard to get good letters outside your home institution, meaning it is hard to get good letters period if you don't have a home program. People do it every year, but like others have said it will require you to put in a lot of effort and initiative. That shouldn't discourage someone who plans on going into neurosurgery.
Also Berger letters are always useless, so whoever posted that clearly has never read one.
(03-20-2018, 12:12 AM)Guest Wrote: Stanford
Stanford-5
U Maryland-2
U Colorado-1
Sinai-1
Georgetown-1
Boston U-1
Yale-1
Vandy-1
Utah-1
Baylor-1
Pitt-1
Harvard-1
UW-1
WashU-1
Duke-1
Matches this year-tufts, Hopkins, Penn
UCSF
U Chicago-2
U Rochester-1
UCSF-3
UCLA-4
Emory-1
Ohsu-1
Yale-1
Vandy-1
Michigan-1
Tulane-1
Columbia-1
Penn-1
Wash u-1
Matches this year-UCSF,UCLA,Yale
Jhu
Yale-1
San Luis Potosí, Mexico-1
Jhu-7
NYU-1
Stanford-2
Columbia-1
Harvard -1
Cleveland clinic-1
Athens, Greece-1
Wake forest-1
U florida-1
Barcelona, Spain -1
Jefferson-1
U Tennessee-1
Mayo-1
Capital medical China-1
Matches this year-Dartmouth, hofstra, jhu x2
Them is the facts, take it how you like. I think it shows the unsurprising conclusion that many residents at highly sought after academically oriented programs come from fancy schools but that there are plenty of exceptions.
Agree. Fairly strong private med school influence in those three programs (or FMGs that hang out in the lab and publish a lot in the case of JHU). Look at web sites and previous match lists from programs and draw your own conclusions. It is a good problem to have to be a good applicant from a public med school and try to decide if you want to spend the time and effort to interview at UCSF, JHU or Stanford, the odds are against you but if you have the academic game and rotated there, you have a shot.
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