(11-02-2019, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:23 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude like what do I do when you guys send me an invite 4 weeks after another program whew I have booked a flight and hotel and it’s non refundable. I’m sorry but I don’t have a bottomless bank account.
The process sucks but it is what it is. We residents don’t control it.
If a program is a priority for you, I would recommend that you do everything you can to get to know the people in the program and make a name for yourself outside of your application within the short window of time you have. You can make of that statement whatever you will.
At least at our program, there are no specific penalties for missing dinner. People understand that you have priorities. If you’d like to be here, it would behoove you to make us one. That’s all.
IMO the dinner should be treated a courtesy to the applicants for shelling out hundreds of dollars and two days of time to visit the program. I think it's a shame that some residents on here are equating availability with interest. As a barometer- if you think it's reasonable to expect an applicant to drop $300 changing his/her flights (or worse yet, cancel the INTERVIEW DAY at another program to make the DINNER at yours), then you have lost the plot.
Nobody is actually equating availability with interest - but the perception is a reality. The process sucks and its unfair especially if you don't come from a double doctor wealthy daddy paid your credit card bill family. But no resident on here or applicant is going to change the process overnight or in time for this dinner you may miss. All we are saying is that this is your time to make it work. You have to do whatever it takes to match. Sell some clothes to make up the cash to switch your flight? Do it. Take out another credit card and max it out to go on "x" number of interviews? Not palatable, but are you serious about matching? Or better yet - for next year's applicants reading this, be even more prepared and map out the dates given to you by SNS and try to make your trips as regionally focused as possible to avoid excess costs and increase travel flexibility.
You can complain or you can be resourceful and get it done because you want it bad enough. The latter make great residents. And those who then use this very reasonable frustration to make changes in our organization are leaders - thats who we want.
(11-02-2019, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:23 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude like what do I do when you guys send me an invite 4 weeks after another program whew I have booked a flight and hotel and it’s non refundable. I’m sorry but I don’t have a bottomless bank account.
The process sucks but it is what it is. We residents don’t control it.
If a program is a priority for you, I would recommend that you do everything you can to get to know the people in the program and make a name for yourself outside of your application within the short window of time you have. You can make of that statement whatever you will.
At least at our program, there are no specific penalties for missing dinner. People understand that you have priorities. If you’d like to be here, it would behoove you to make us one. That’s all.
IMO the dinner should be treated a courtesy to the applicants for shelling out hundreds of dollars and two days of time to visit the program. I think it's a shame that some residents on here are equating availability with interest. As a barometer- if you think it's reasonable to expect an applicant to drop $300 changing his/her flights (or worse yet, cancel the INTERVIEW DAY at another program to make the DINNER at yours), then you have lost the plot.
Same person you replied to here.
I totally agree, and since I’m typing from my phone I think some of that was lost in translation.
The fact of the matter is that dinner gives you more face time with a program and gives you an opportunity to be memorable and known. It’s not that being at dinner equates to interest, but by limiting the amount of time you spend with residents or faculty, you limit to some extent your memorability, whether that’s conscious or unconscious on the part of residents. We already have a limited amount of time to get to know you, so any time you can spend with us or the faculty generally puts points in your column (unless you’re a total weirdo).
So the short answer is no, it’s not fair that missing dinner can hurt you. No, we don’t necessarily think you’re “less interested,” but the effect is basically the same - we don’t know you as well as other applicants, and come ranking time, we have less data to go on and you’re likely to fall.
I'd say if you didn't do a SubI at a program you should try to make the dinner.
(11-02-2019, 05:44 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:23 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude like what do I do when you guys send me an invite 4 weeks after another program whew I have booked a flight and hotel and it’s non refundable. I’m sorry but I don’t have a bottomless bank account.
The process sucks but it is what it is. We residents don’t control it.
If a program is a priority for you, I would recommend that you do everything you can to get to know the people in the program and make a name for yourself outside of your application within the short window of time you have. You can make of that statement whatever you will.
At least at our program, there are no specific penalties for missing dinner. People understand that you have priorities. If you’d like to be here, it would behoove you to make us one. That’s all.
IMO the dinner should be treated a courtesy to the applicants for shelling out hundreds of dollars and two days of time to visit the program. I think it's a shame that some residents on here are equating availability with interest. As a barometer- if you think it's reasonable to expect an applicant to drop $300 changing his/her flights (or worse yet, cancel the INTERVIEW DAY at another program to make the DINNER at yours), then you have lost the plot.
Same person you replied to here.
I totally agree, and since I’m typing from my phone I think some of that was lost in translation.
The fact of the matter is that dinner gives you more face time with a program and gives you an opportunity to be memorable and known. It’s not that being at dinner equates to interest, but by limiting the amount of time you spend with residents or faculty, you limit to some extent your memorability, whether that’s conscious or unconscious on the part of residents. We already have a limited amount of time to get to know you, so any time you can spend with us or the faculty generally puts points in your column (unless you’re a total weirdo).
So the short answer is no, it’s not fair that missing dinner can hurt you. No, we don’t necessarily think you’re “less interested,” but the effect is basically the same - we don’t know you as well as other applicants, and come ranking time, we have less data to go on and you’re likely to fall.
Agree. You'd be surprised how many times I've heard "well I sat next to X at dinner and he/she seemed..."
Going out with the residents afterward - even if it's just for a little bit - is also a plus.
People tend to reveal their true selves in a casual atmosphere with a couple drinks in them. Once you start on the trail, you'll start hearing the legendary stories about those nights. Those moments are pretty valuable to us when evaluating you.
It's sound advice to prioritize the dinners for the programs that you forsee ranking highly. If it's a lower-choice program for you, then don't break the bank to get there.
(11-02-2019, 05:44 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 04:23 PM)Guest Wrote: (11-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude like what do I do when you guys send me an invite 4 weeks after another program whew I have booked a flight and hotel and it’s non refundable. I’m sorry but I don’t have a bottomless bank account.
The process sucks but it is what it is. We residents don’t control it.
If a program is a priority for you, I would recommend that you do everything you can to get to know the people in the program and make a name for yourself outside of your application within the short window of time you have. You can make of that statement whatever you will.
At least at our program, there are no specific penalties for missing dinner. People understand that you have priorities. If you’d like to be here, it would behoove you to make us one. That’s all.
IMO the dinner should be treated a courtesy to the applicants for shelling out hundreds of dollars and two days of time to visit the program. I think it's a shame that some residents on here are equating availability with interest. As a barometer- if you think it's reasonable to expect an applicant to drop $300 changing his/her flights (or worse yet, cancel the INTERVIEW DAY at another program to make the DINNER at yours), then you have lost the plot.
Same person you replied to here.
I totally agree, and since I’m typing from my phone I think some of that was lost in translation.
The fact of the matter is that dinner gives you more face time with a program and gives you an opportunity to be memorable and known. It’s not that being at dinner equates to interest, but by limiting the amount of time you spend with residents or faculty, you limit to some extent your memorability, whether that’s conscious or unconscious on the part of residents. We already have a limited amount of time to get to know you, so any time you can spend with us or the faculty generally puts points in your column (unless you’re a total weirdo).
So the short answer is no, it’s not fair that missing dinner can hurt you. No, we don’t necessarily think you’re “less interested,” but the effect is basically the same - we don’t know you as well as other applicants, and come ranking time, we have less data to go on and you’re likely to fall.
i get how much it sucks as an applicant. i was an applicant in your shoes not too long ago. i'm just saying that not being at the dinner gives you less facetime, take it for what you will. come ranking time, we are bound to rank someone who was more memorable than someone who wasn't, and you aren't doing yourself a favor if you miss that time.
-resident, midwest
I would say that if programs say “optional dinner”, then it should not be utilized to rank applicants in an ideal world. If the purpose of “optional dinner” is to get rid of weirdos and sociopaths as well as get some flavor of applicants’ behavior in a social setting, which most of the programs do, I think they should say “required dinner.” My program says “required.” This works both ways. If it is required, applicants can cancel them beforehand for other applicants and at the same time can avoid waste their time by just having interviews without attending dinner with the false hope of matching to that program.
- Opinion from a random resident
(11-02-2019, 08:23 PM)Guest Wrote: I would say that if programs say “optional dinner”, then it should not be utilized to rank applicants in an ideal world. If the purpose of “optional dinner” is to get rid of weirdos and sociopaths as well as get some flavor of applicants’ behavior in a social setting, which most of the programs do, I think they should say “required dinner.” My program says “required.” This works both ways. If it is required, applicants can cancel them beforehand for other applicants and at the same time can avoid waste their time by just having interviews without attending dinner with the false hope of matching to that program.
- Opinion from a random resident
None of the dinners are "required", but they're still very important. As someone who's sat in multiple rank list meetings it's really hard to remember details about your interactions with 50 different people, and it's really difficult as an applicant to make an impression in that short time. That's including the people you've had dinner with, imagine how much harder it is to make an impression with only a 10-20 minute interview, you can almost guarantee none of the residents will remember you.
No one is going to say it's required, but you're at a massive disadvantage missing the dinner. If you don't have an amazing app on paper, or if you don't do a second look, it's highly unlikely you'll match there. If you're worried about the money from canceling the flight for your other interview, you might as well not even go on the interview that you're miss the dinner, save yourself the time/money.
(10-31-2019, 02:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 02:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 01:06 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 12:44 PM)Guest Wrote: Official invites from Dartmouth went out on 10/29.
Yeah I got confirmation
Don’t bother going. I am a home student and pretty have that spot
Lol sounds like a great way to lose that spot. Also, do you really think they won’t consider others? Lol
Not when the chair is your uncle
Dear Mr./Ms. Troll,
I just learned about this thread/forum today from fellow interviewers. I’m actually a Dartmouth student and the only one applying to neurosurg from there this cycle. I feel very sorry for you, and hope you’re ultimately able to address whatever it is you feel the need to compensate for. Hopefully you can moderate the vitriol and people you smear on your journey.
Yours Truly,
—The welcoming Dartmouth neurosurg applicant
(11-03-2019, 12:54 AM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 02:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 02:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 01:06 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah I got confirmation
Don’t bother going. I am a home student and pretty have that spot
Lol sounds like a great way to lose that spot. Also, do you really think they won’t consider others? Lol
Not when the chair is your uncle
Dear Mr./Ms. Troll,
I just learned about this thread/forum today from fellow interviewers. I’m actually a Dartmouth student and the only one applying to neurosurg from there this cycle. I feel very sorry for you, and hope you’re ultimately able to address whatever it is you feel the need to compensate for. Hopefully you can moderate the vitriol and people you smear on your journey.
Yours Truly,
—The welcoming Dartmouth neurosurg applicant
Thanks for your input Dartmouth applicant!
(11-03-2019, 12:54 AM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 02:53 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 02:41 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 01:06 PM)Guest Wrote: (10-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Guest Wrote: Yeah I got confirmation
Don’t bother going. I am a home student and pretty have that spot
Lol sounds like a great way to lose that spot. Also, do you really think they won’t consider others? Lol
Not when the chair is your uncle
Dear Mr./Ms. Troll,
I just learned about this thread/forum today from fellow interviewers. I’m actually a Dartmouth student and the only one applying to neurosurg from there this cycle. I feel very sorry for you, and hope you’re ultimately able to address whatever it is you feel the need to compensate for. Hopefully you can moderate the vitriol and people you smear on your journey.
Yours Truly,
—The welcoming Dartmouth neurosurg applicant
Dude no-one cares. stop wasting time showing your pathetic Dartmouth presence and get over yourself!
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