^^ Oh wow this guy really is something.
Walking into a NS interview and openly saying you are in it for money.
Lots of people go into the field because they genuinely enjoy it and enjoy helping patients. I come from a wealthy background, so I'm not doing it for money. No wonder why PDs prefer people from wealthy backgrounds.
Go into business, imo.
I see it all the time. NSGs cutting ties with academic centers due to money, forming their own PP ground. Attendings leaving one practice for another due to money. If they didn't do it for the money, they would stay at their original center. In fact, at an academic center they would get more "complex patients" and get to help a patient "in more need". But instead they elect to do community spine for money. I've seen attendigns act unprofessional regarding compensation, refusing to do work, or leaving if not paid a certain amount. If they "truly loved it" and "did it for the good of the patient" then price woulnd't matter.
At the end of the day its a job. We do a job for money. Actions are lounder than words. If neurosurgery paid the same as primary care, I bet that many would not want to enter the field. In fact, in other countries a neurosurgeon isn't prestigious - upper middle class - and even some specialities earn and regarded as better: GI, etc.
^ Agreed, you make some good points. In the interview, when they ask you why neurosurgery, mention: Money. And if they push back, argue with them.
While you’re right that many (if not most) enter NSG for the prestige or money, it’s self sabotage to be open about these intentions during an interview. PDs look for people with genuine motivation to be in the field, so just teach yourself to drink the kool aid during interviews and say what they want to hear until you match. They won’t be able to do anything about it once your graduate and pursue your real career goals
I don't think its fair to say that neurosurgeons move jobs just because of pure greed. The real question that should be asked is are you being paid fairly for the services you provide. Our residency is the longest, most difficult, and most intensive. The risks we absorb on a daily basis are profound. Our spouses and children are burdened by our absence more than any other specialty. No amount of money can really compensate for these things and if you think it can, neurosurgery is probably not a good choice. So are you being paid fairly? If the answer is no...it's time to go!
I hope this person keeps stating in interviews that he's in it for the money. One less person in the competition this upcoming cycle.
What’s wrong with being in it for the money?
Until you have a residency spot and are a 600k+ in debt, money will be a very high priority. It’s thay or file for bankruptcy. Family medicine and primary care won’t pay those loans.
What sensible person is going 600k into debt? If you’re taking full loans over scholarships to chase prestige then that’s on you
600k in debt. Jesus Christ. I guess it's possible if you took out loans for both undergrad and medical school.
I'm going to be around 90k in debt. Not too bad, I guess.
If you're in it for the money, you keep it to yourself. There are social conventions that you need to stick to. Don't be an arrogant fool.
600k was a calculated decision from a top tier medical education to become a neurosurgeon. You can't just "take a full loan over a scholarship". Obviouslly one would take a scholarship if given the opportunity. Unfortunately, not everyone qualifies for one. It was 600k+ to pursue a life dream, which was cut short half way through residency due to personal reasons. It can happen to anyone, for any reason. They use professionalism as an excuse to get people out. One they want you out, they start documenting petty things just to put stuff on paper.
Not everyone is treated the same. Someone can commit the same offenses and be fine b/c they are well liked, and/or perform a ton of research and be saved. Whereas others can have a great personality and do great in the OR, but if they have personal beef with an attending (fair or unfair), the nurses get on your wrong side, or your chief doesn't like you then you are done. Its not like a regular job where its pretty easy to apply to another and continue. Residency is a limiting step to continue, and leaving it not only wrecks your career, but wrecks someone mentally, physically, spirtually. The pain builds daily, unless you have been through anythign like it, many will not understand. If you have chased something for 14+ years of your life, excelled in all your classes and exams, leadership, reseaqrch, 600k+ in debt, all to be done for personal reasons - I would like to see how you feel.
I have seen a resident get made fun of, put on probation, and almost fired at one place, but transferred and became a star resident at another. I have seen one resident who isn't that bad, but he is just socially awkward and slow, so people make fun of him and honestly gives him a bad enviroment to grow. The residency does not try to help him (on paper it does, but the environment with MD/PA/nurses etc do not). Some residents leave a top residency due arrogance or beef with a chief, then get picked up at a growing program b/c they publish research. It even happens at the attending level, people are asked to leave and its almost alway personal, its never this huge red flag. They have the protection that they have completed residency.
