(12-09-2017, 10:46 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-09-2017, 07:24 PM)Guest Wrote: UCSD is unstable af. They had a chair for less than 10 years before he bailed. Now they don't even have one. I'd rank it as "everything else" for that and the lack of academic output with loss of Carter and chen. Great locale though
UCSD still manages to draw attention from top applicants because of its unparalleled location.
but thays about it. mad unstable program with double and sometimes even triple scrubbing
NeuroGMC/OP, you say not to think about neurosurgery in tiers but you clearly are from an upper tier program no matter how you define it, and the tiers aren't exactly hard for you to come up with yourself. They exist, whether or not it's beneficial to anyone.
(12-08-2017, 09:24 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-07-2017, 01:42 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-06-2017, 11:11 AM)NeuroGMC Wrote: Established Programs where you will get amazing training and have a bit more connections politically and maybe more publication ability --
UCSF, Barrow, Pitt, MGH, Hopkins, Mayo, UWash, Brigham, Northwestern, Emory, Jefferson, UT Southwestern, Vanderbilt, Baylor, USC, Miami, Penn, Duke, NYU, Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UAB, Michigan, Columbia, Stanford, WashU, Florida, NYU, Cinci, UVA
Up and Coming Programs where you still will get amazing training and have to seek out those political connection and publications slightly more --
Maryland, Rochester, Mount Sinai, UCSD, OHSU, VCU, Yale, Wisconsin, MCW, USF, UNC, OU, UNM, Minnesota, Kansas, Colorado, Tufts, Rush, Penn State, Allegheny General
Many of these programs have changed dramatically in the past several years. There is no way you can argue Columbia is in the first category. Likewise, Cinci is having turmoil with the divorce between the university and Mayfield clinic. You mention stability, that is a sign of lack of stability.
As to your definition of up and coming, what are the criteria? Many of these (USF, Minnesota, Colorado, Rush, OHSU) are indeed up and coming. Many have major red flags, or established they are stagnant or on the decline, and I would be hesitant to rank them (UNM, MCW, OU, Tufts, Allegheny, Penn State)
Cinci is definitely not 100% stable, they have a brand new chairman but give it a few years and let the dust settle. They have all the resources to be a solid program.
I'd say OHSU and Colorado are established programs with bright futures as long as their big name faculty members don't leave.
In Penn State's case it depends on who takes over as chair. They have solid faculty and Ken Liu is coming over from UVA.
Second the Cinci statement. Recently recruited two new big name faculty members and are infusing something like $60M into the new neurosurgery Department. Give them a few years and then reevaluate tiers.
Should I feel bad that none of my few interviews are at these tiered programs? Because I do. I’m distraught with where I am at this point in my life. It’s hard to look myself in the mirror and say that I accept my inadequacies and inability to match a top rate program. There has always been a barrier in my academic career and I have failed to overcome it at each level now.
Dude, do you want to be a neurosurgeon who takes good care of sick and injured people, or do you want to be a neurosurgeon who gets name dropped on places like this? The world needs both and neither is right or wrong, but non-tiered places will help you get to the first.
(12-10-2017, 06:20 PM)Guest Wrote: Should I feel bad that none of my few interviews are at these tiered programs? Because I do. I’m distraught with where I am at this point in my life. It’s hard to look myself in the mirror and say that I accept my inadequacies and inability to match a top rate program. There has always been a barrier in my academic career and I have failed to overcome it at each level now.
Unless you overcompensate for an inadequacy, having a blue collar background will bring blue collar results.
Yes three are diamonds in the rough. Based on the limited information you give however, that is not the case. Be happy with your lot in life. As others have mentioned, you can still do great things for the people around you. Just less likely to be in the line of chortlers here.
(12-10-2017, 07:18 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude, do you want to be a neurosurgeon who takes good care of sick and injured people, or do you want to be a neurosurgeon who gets name dropped on places like this? The world needs both and neither is right or wrong, but non-tiered places will help you get to the first.
Preach. This sub is beyond pretentious. Some of us just want to be in a specialty we actually enjoy and want to take care of people...
(12-10-2017, 09:40 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-10-2017, 07:18 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude, do you want to be a neurosurgeon who takes good care of sick and injured people, or do you want to be a neurosurgeon who gets name dropped on places like this? The world needs both and neither is right or wrong, but non-tiered places will help you get to the first.
Preach. This sub is beyond pretentious. Some of us just want to be in a specialty we actually enjoy and want to take care of people...
Seriously though... The only people who actually really give a shit about “tiers” are people with nothing better to do.
If you’re going to be a great surgeon, whether it be operatively or academically, where you train will not be able to hold you back.
Sure, some programs might be stronger in this or that, or have better connections for unique rotations / fellowships / research. But at the end of the day you will become what you’re meant to be.
A mediocre surgeon trained at a top tier institution will always be mediocre.
An excellent surgeon trained at a mediocre program will always become excellent, simply by his/her very nature.
You can change the field if you have it in you, no matter where you are.
(12-10-2017, 09:40 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-10-2017, 07:18 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude, do you want to be a neurosurgeon who takes good care of sick and injured people, or do you want to be a neurosurgeon who gets name dropped on places like this? The world needs both and neither is right or wrong, but non-tiered places will help you get to the first.
Preach. This sub is beyond pretentious. Some of us just want to be in a specialty we actually enjoy and want to take care of people...
More sour grapes...
Some of us want to get the best training possible. Ever think about that? Get off your high horse.
(12-11-2017, 09:17 AM)Guest Wrote: (12-10-2017, 09:40 PM)Guest Wrote: (12-10-2017, 07:18 PM)Guest Wrote: Dude, do you want to be a neurosurgeon who takes good care of sick and injured people, or do you want to be a neurosurgeon who gets name dropped on places like this? The world needs both and neither is right or wrong, but non-tiered places will help you get to the first.
Preach. This sub is beyond pretentious. Some of us just want to be in a specialty we actually enjoy and want to take care of people...
More sour grapes...
Some of us want to get the best training possible. Ever think about that? Get off your high horse.
I’m quite sure everyone wants to receive the best training possible, for them. Not everyone wants to sub sub specialize, have an R01 lab on the side, and become academic department chair. Some
“merely” want to get the best operative experience in a culture that fosters them to become the best clinicians they can. Even if academic pedigree is your top priority, abrupt department chair changes happen and can turn programs around quickly, for better or for worse. That’s why this tier business is nonsense regardless. Talk to faculty, residents, etc, and use sound judgement that’s tailored for your own purposes rather than base your career on rankings given by some bozos on an anonymous forum.
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