Wayyyy over hours on subinternships (100-110+)

[Guest]

(06-12-2019, 09:19 PM)Guest Wrote: Work-life balance isn't real. Don't expect to have a life outside the hospital except during your research time. A light day is 14hrs.

Something to note on the trail and sub-Is is the quality of life of the residents at the programs you're interviewing at. Do they get along? Are they overtly miserable or downtrodden? Is the teaching culture intact?

Welcome to neurosurgery sugarplum.

[Guest]

I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

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(08-05-2019, 12:17 AM)Guest Wrote: I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

I'll add, if they see you work hard they let you do stuff. After 1 week they let me expose a t10-pelvis, pit an EVD, close the entire spine and close from dura out on my own. makes you wanna work more in my opinion and keeps it fun

[Guest]

(08-05-2019, 12:17 AM)Guest Wrote: I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

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(08-05-2019, 12:17 AM)Guest Wrote: I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

I'll add, if they see you work hard they let you do stuff. After 1 week they let me expose a t10-pelvis, pit an EVD, close the entire spine and close from dura out on my own. makes you wanna work more in my opinion and keeps it fun

LOL! Yea and they let me do a whole case skin to skin. I call BS

[Guest]

(08-05-2019, 05:16 AM)Guest Wrote:

(08-05-2019, 12:17 AM)Guest Wrote: I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

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(08-05-2019, 12:17 AM)Guest Wrote: I saw this and laughed the first time I read it but now that I'm on my SubI I see how real it is. Just remember, this is an interview and we're not good enough to know everything about our patients yet without the extra hours plus we have to show we will be willing to work hard if we are deficient in actual residency. This is a month long interview, bend over and take it.

My resident said it perfectly, "as a subI you work harder than residents and it continuously gets easier as you move up the ranks, you're working 130 hours a week right now but if you match here you'll only be at 100 not including the readings we do at home. Neurosurgery isn't a job, it's a lifestyle."

I'll add, if they see you work hard they let you do stuff. After 1 week they let me expose a t10-pelvis, pit an EVD, close the entire spine and close from dura out on my own. makes you wanna work more in my opinion and keeps it fun

LOL! Yea and they let me do a whole case skin to skin. I call BS

Nah not BS but it’s just closing so it’s no big deal. Apparently other subIs at that institution were exposing but they were also working crazy hours. Bottom line-if you love it you’ll wanna work and you’ll get to do stuff. Stop being a puss

[Guest]

You have to earn your stripes. You have to do the shit work before you get to do the fun work. I worked 120 hour weeks as a subI. I’m down to 100 hour weeks as an intern and by comparison it’s really not that bad. Prove you can suck it up and do the work. It’s a finite period of time.

[Guest]

no pain no gain

[Guest]

(08-13-2019, 07:26 AM)Guest Wrote: no pain no gain

As a M2, how can i get a sense if i have the resilience for this unforgiving hours? I am considering nsg but always having doubts if i can pull this off and shadowing hasn’t really helped me answer this question yet. Thank you in advance

[Guest]

(08-13-2019, 01:15 PM)Yeah Guest Wrote:

(08-13-2019, 07:26 AM)Guest Wrote: no pain no gain

As a M2, how can i get a sense if i have the resilience for this unforgiving hours? I am considering nsg but always having doubts if i can pull this off and shadowing hasn’t really helped me answer this question yet. Thank you in advance

You won’t get to fully experience it until you’re a sub-I, or do a rotation as a 3rd year elective. The next best option is to see how you handle long hours during other rotations like surgery, OB, and maybe even IM. But keep in mind long days on a service you’re not interested in can be different than long days in a field you love.

[Guest]

(08-13-2019, 01:15 PM)Guest Wrote:

(08-13-2019, 07:26 AM)Guest Wrote: no pain no gain

As a M2, how can i get a sense if i have the resilience for this unforgiving hours? I am considering nsg but always having doubts if i can pull this off and shadowing hasn’t really helped me answer this question yet. Thank you in advance

Junior attending here.  I was in this situation.  I love my job.  The uncomfortably true answer is that your Sub-Is, and much of your junior residency, are exercises in pain.  They have to be, because (1) competent surgeons are made with hard work, more than intelligence, creativity, or natural ability and (2) we literally have no other reliable way to distinguish between candidates who are mostly brilliant on paper.

I loved neurosurgery as an M2, then even more as an M3 on neurosurgery elective, then even more on my first Sub-I.  But after 3 Sub-Is "working" 120+ hours a week (because let's face it, Sub-Is are not integral to the team), my love for neurosurgery was very nearly beaten out of me.  Match Day provided a tremendous boost and intern year wasn't bad, but junior residency threatened to beat it out of me again.  But after you grin and bear it, and people start to trust you, and you get to operate, and patients do well, and you're not just an order-writing-consult-seeing machine, and you start to feel like you can actually DO things with confidence, things get a whole lot better.  I saw it in myself, and I see it in most of my residents - there's a palpable shift as they come into their own as surgeons, even if they're still in training.

The "just suck it up" or "maybe you should choose something else" posts that are rife on this site aren't totally incorrect, but just illustrate why you shouldn't get all your advice from underqualified online jetsam.  Nobody wants an unhappy resident or an unhappy surgeon.  I wouldn't talk to TOO many people in your department about this issue (word spreads fast), but find 1 or 2 people that you trust and talk to them.  I think you'd be surprised what you learn.  Everyone has had their doubts.  Those who claim they've never doubted their decision to enter neurosurgery are doing it wrong - or aren't busy enough.

[Guest]

(08-13-2019, 08:15 PM)Guest Wrote:

(08-13-2019, 01:15 PM)Guest Wrote:

(08-13-2019, 07:26 AM)Guest Wrote: no pain no gain

As a M2, how can i get a sense if i have the resilience for this unforgiving hours? I am considering nsg but always having doubts if i can pull this off and shadowing hasn’t really helped me answer this question yet. Thank you in advance

Junior attending here.  I was in this situation.  I love my job.  The uncomfortably true answer is that your Sub-Is, and much of your junior residency, are exercises in pain.  They have to be, because (1) competent surgeons are made with hard work, more than intelligence, creativity, or natural ability and (2) we literally have no other reliable way to distinguish between candidates who are mostly brilliant on paper.

I loved neurosurgery as an M2, then even more as an M3 on neurosurgery elective, then even more on my first Sub-I.  But after 3 Sub-Is "working" 120+ hours a week (because let's face it, Sub-Is are not integral to the team), my love for neurosurgery was very nearly beaten out of me.  Match Day provided a tremendous boost and intern year wasn't bad, but junior residency threatened to beat it out of me again.  But after you grin and bear it, and people start to trust you, and you get to operate, and patients do well, and you're not just an order-writing-consult-seeing machine, and you start to feel like you can actually DO things with confidence, things get a whole lot better.  I saw it in myself, and I see it in most of my residents - there's a palpable shift as they come into their own as surgeons, even if they're still in training.

The "just suck it up" or "maybe you should choose something else" posts that are rife on this site aren't totally incorrect, but just illustrate why you shouldn't get all your advice from underqualified online jetsam.  Nobody wants an unhappy resident or an unhappy surgeon.  I wouldn't talk to TOO many people in your department about this issue (word spreads fast), but find 1 or 2 people that you trust and talk to them.  I think you'd be surprised what you learn.  Everyone has had their doubts.  Those who claim they've never doubted their decision to enter neurosurgery are doing it wrong - or aren't busy enough.

For every 50 lame posts on here that pretend neurosurgeons are inhuman, you get one great one like this.